Aaron and Michael sat down with the creator of the popular trucking and freight news blog www.freightbrokerlive.com to discuss all things trucking!

They dive into how Stephen got started, why he hates the term "millennials", how our generation (and younger) can have a successful career in our industry, trucking media, and much, much, more!

Stephen has a passion for logistics that is supremely evident in this episode! Be sure to follow him on social media, his podcast and website so you don't miss his unique take on what's happening in logistics today!

Never miss an episode by subscribing to the Trucking for Millennials podcast on these platforms:

“I'm just…I'm not that much of a dork that I have logistics tattooed across my chest. But I swear I would do it…”

Michael Clements:

Welcome to Trucking for Millennials where we engage with the future of freight happening now. My name is Michael Clements.

Aaron Dunn:

and I'm Aaron Dunn. And we're here to help trucking and logistics professionals stay up to date and ahead of the curve. 

Michael Clements:

As our industry evolves, we're connecting with every step of the supply chain as part of our mission to increase transparency and provide a world class freight solutions.

Aaron Dunn: 

Trucking for Millennials. Here we are. 

Michael Clements: 

Yeah.

Aaron Dunn: 

Right, right, right fanfare… gotta have the fanfare. This is gonna be a really great episode of Trucking for Millennials because we have the Freight Broker Live, Your Favorite Freight Broker.

Aaron Dunn:

How's it going, man?

Stephen Oatley: 

It's going well, it's going well.

Aaron Dunn: 

If you're in trucking at all, you probably have visited his website, listened his podcast, watched his live stream. And if you haven't, I definitely encourage you to do so. Because man, you're always breaking news and all kinds of stuff. I mean, breaking trucking news, giving it to… giving it to the drivers and the freight brokers straight. I mean, there's a lot to be said and appreciated about the work that you do. So we're gonna dive into all of it. 

Stephen Oatley: 

Very cool. Yeah, I, I like it. I just I love the industry, which is why I've spent so much time trying to, I guess, tell it like it really is, you know?

Aaron Dunn: 

Yeah. So, talk a little bit about you know, what you do? Introduce yourself to our audience, for those that may not know, and then get into a little bit of your background just for context.

Stephen Oatley: 

Right. Well, I started in logistics kind of on accident. When I was a sophomore in college, I started a trucking company, not really knowing what I was doing, but I wanted to…Not work a typical job for a summer so I just I bought an old like, I guess U-Haul truck, a Penske truck and just started filling it. I didn't have a DoT number, I didn't have any of that stuff. I didn't know what the load board was. I was just using either word of mouth or, or, you know, sites like Uship back when they were actually decent. And and started, you know, just transporting stuff back and forth. I then went back to school, I ended up building up that trucking company and then exited that company successfully and kind of took a break from from trucking for a while, and then returned to it again, on accident. I was working as a crew chief for a moving company in New Jersey. And I got laid off and because I already had the trucking background, I essentially asked him to rent one of my trucks or rent one of his trucks. And and you know, told him my plan and all that stuff and, and within a very short time, I expanded you know, and just built it out and just got involved in in trucking from the truck or, you know, logistics just from the trucking side. I didn't even know what a broker was didn't even again at that time I didn't have any involvement with freight brokers or load boards. I was just kind of doing it through word of mouth and a kind of natural salesperson, I guess. So, I was able to get customers pretty easily and I ended up I forgot what it was, I think I was in a truck. I didn't have any numbers on it. I ended up down in Florida and I got stopped at one of the agricultural inspections. And they're like, “Hey, where's your DoT number? And I said, “What number?” And that's, that's, you know, that's where I consider I actually started my logistics career. So I got the DoT number, I got the MC number because I found out that's what I needed as well. I started you know, building and then one day you know, I realized game was over because I found what I looked up load boards. I was mad at Uship or I was mad at a customer something and trying to find a way to get other freight. And I came across the dat load board and ever since then it's kind of been a written you know, I I grew that trucking company up from the one truck that I had to 22 trucks in nine months and a lot of customers and a lot of business I expanded into the freight broker side again kind of on accident. I I wouldn't turn down any loads from customers. And it became an issue because I didn't have trucks, like I didn't serve in certain regions. But if a customer said “Hey, can you get this move?” I would say yes, and I’d either try to wait and send a truck out to go deliver it or I would just utilize other carriers you know, not knowing that I needed a broker bond and all that stuff to do it. And then when I found that out through the insurance company, my insurance company, they said “Hey, you need to be a licensed broker.” You know, I became a licensed broker and then I realized it was a lot. I made a lot more money by putting the freight on other people's trucks instead of my own and as an broker I made a lot more profit. So I started doing that. And then I realized, you know, it's a lot you make a lot more money as a freight broker because you have no operation you have very little operational expenses versus owning a bunch of trucks. And so I kind of I, but I, I like to say I'm a trucker at heart and I'm a carrier centric broker, meaning that I really enjoy being in a truck. I really enjoy it I mean, the sound of the truck anything like that I just I really like and enjoy so I, you know, I've always gone back. I… you know, I've exited the industry quite a few times and and either through selling companies or worse companies going under, or just me leaving because I'm just tired of the monotony of the job, you know, and when freight rates go down, so does everything else and it just becomes an unglamorous industry and, and now with the advent of social media, it's really not that glamorous anymore. There's a lot of negativity around it. And and that's what prompted me to start Freight Broker Live as I was I was tired of listening to people complain. And so one day I was working as an active broker and I got on social media. And really it was kind of like my last hurrah. I was…I was done. So I made a live video and I said, You know, I posted it and all the groups and I said, ask it, I'm a freight broker asked me anything. And that video in the two hours, I think I actually did it for like two and a half hours, it had, I think, 400 comments on it and 3000 views by the time I was done, and I realized, okay, there is a market for someone out there that is just literally out there to, to try to help and to try to, I guess, let carriers understand the broker mindset because…Before, there's nobody out from what I understand, there's nobody out there that actually just expresses what it's like to actually be in the industry. You have people that are just negative about it constantly. Or you have people that are positive about it, but only a certain aspect and their real job is not really to be positive about the industry. It's to make money off of what they're selling. And so I wanted to be… I'm a… you know, that's how Freight Broker Live was born was I wanted to become a brand where the sole focus of everything I reported on every video I made was just to try to help the industry good or bad. You know, and that's one of the reasons why, you know, sometimes we hear bad stories. I'm writing about a bad story now, but it's kind of funny, but it's bad. You know, and it's, it's just, you know, it's something I like in it. A lot of people were receptive of it. It's gotten me a lot of at you know, I've made so many different connections in the field. I met you guys you know, just because of it and and, and I just, I really enjoy it.

Aaron Dunn: 

Excellent. Well, we're enjoying it for sure. And yeah, we got connected pretty early on like, I think it was after your first or second video that we got connected. We could have broke the story on you, man. That's, that's a missed opportunity for us. But yeah, like it's great, what you're doing, you've got a great setup. I actually look back at our messages and when I first got connected with you, and, you know, we touched briefly, we had just launched Trucking for Millennials. And we touched briefly on the topic of millennials…the the term and I love it because, you know, we look back in the message, you're like, “I hate the word millennial,” you know, you don't like to identify yourself as a, if I remember the quote, right, IPA drinking Snapchatting, you know, loser. So, that's the bad rap. A lot of times millennials get but you're definitely in you're definitely not that. So why do you hate the word millennial?

Stephen Oatley: 

Because I think in the transportation industry, or at least in the corporate world, for me and my experiences in it, I was I was, you know, I left out certain parts of my background just to keep it fast. But I would leave you know, being an owner and be in work as like a C level executive with different companies and startups and things like that. And I realized that me being a younger person and coming in with the knowledge that I had I was almost looked down on by the people that have been stuck in their ways and do it you guys know you're young and and when you work with older people sometimes they're really just stuck in their ways. And and now as we're getting older, I find that the generation that's coming in like for me and a lot of the people that were my age, at that time in the positions that they were, we were outgoing were, you know, full of spunk, I guess is the easy word. And we were super excited to be in the industry and try to change things and make it better and you know, like I focused a lot on retail distribution and consolidation and stuff like that and used centralized warehousing and they're like, “No, we need regional…” just stuff that didn't make any sense. And that's kind of where the market is now. But with… I've noticed with the new generation, especially as someone that hires from my brokerage arm, they’re lazy, you know that… it's really hard. I mean, I can hire 10 people and I knock on wood that maybe one of them's going to have the I love the word gumption to actually to stick it through and try to learn and feel and understand and I guess breathe the industry like I do you know what I mean? I'm a dork. So I read logistics magazines constantly. I read in my new you know, media outlook I read entirely too much. And, you know, my eyes by the end of the day, I'm like, “Oh, my gosh, my eyes hurt.” And it and I and I did it before now, it's just different because I write about it as well. But I always did it and I find that, you know, people are entering the workforce, they have these big fancy degrees that mean nothing, and they sit down and they're like, okay, yeah, well, so is this computer going to do everything for me, you know, because that's what they're used to. It's and and so that's why I don't like the term millennial because I think it has that umbrella of, you know, the nine out of 10 that are just lazy millennials. It and and…Full disclosure, I like IPAs. I'll say that I do like IPAs, but…

Aaron Dunn:

I appreciate the openness there, Stephen. 

Stephen Oatley: 

Oh, yeah. I'm pretty open.

Aaron Dunn:

It's definitely something that we can count on. Michael, did you? Did you have a question?

Michael Clements:

Yeah. So, so Stephen, what do you think we can be doing to encourage millennials maybe? Like what you're saying that laziness that whatever it is, I think there are a lot of high performing millennials out there. So what do you think the…Why do you think we have so many that are on one end of the spectrum and so many that are on the other?

Stephen Oatley: 

Complacent-ness, I think a lot of people are just they, you know, I mean, to go and it's gonna get worse. You know, my wife is a teacher. So I don't know if you guys knew that. She's a high school teacher. They don't assign homework, the tests they all use, like open book tests. Now there's not that need to actually do something and excel in it. I think it’s missing from even that generation I don't even know what that's called, you know the kids now, but I worry like my son is four years old he hasn't had homework in two years. So he has homework I make him do you know math and all that stuff extra every single day. But you know the issue with millennials and that generation and on hiring qualified people I think has to do with a lot with complacent-ness. A lot of people are used to just being able to get by or just get a paycheck and so the need to just do something and actually find it fulfilling you know, is it it's not there you know, and then the people that the millennials that are out there are and the people I don't even like say millennials and as a term in general, but the people that are out that fit that that demographic or whatever, those people are out there, but they're super, super, super hard to actually get because everybody wants that person that actually cares and wants to work and wants to thrive. And see everything that they touch, work, and understand. You know, I actually just wrote a paper because I do writing on the side outside of logistics. And I wrote a paper about it because I think, you know, the industry and the workforce in general just lacks that. That willingness to I mean, I I know, it's sad, to be honest, when you think about it a little bit. It's not a lot of people have the drive, you know, and maybe I'm just unique and, and, and, you know, I've, I've been working since I was 13. So I just work all the time. And, and if I have a weekend off, I about to go nuts after two days, like, you know, I just work that's what I do. And I think in everyone right now focuses on that the whole, you know, tech startup like fancy office standup desks, you know, I don't know what to do to attract people to be honest, because I'm such a hard head. Anyway, when I get people in for interviews normally I sit down, I look them over, I talk to them for a couple of seconds. And I say, okay, because I am so stuck in my ways. And I know what kind of person I want, the kind of person that walks in, sits down and just interviews me for the job, that is the kind of person that you know is going to sit there and is going to just, they want to crush it, crush it, you know, and I've had a couple of those interviews and they're successful people or when I do a training or something like that, where people clearly have no background in the industry, but they're asking questions that are well advanced and what you're actually talking about because they've, they just care about it, they look at it, and it's not just about a job, it's about… I, because I'm a video gamer, too. So I say a way of life. That's what the industry is, you know, and and for me, it's every single thing I do for the past 15 years has had to do with logistics in some aspect, you know, if you ask my wife she'll confirm because we barely talk about anything else except logistics. That's it, you know, and and I think in order to make the the industry appealing to people we have to do what I'm trying to do and you guys are trying to do and just open it and have people actually understand. I mean, you guys probably know how often do you tell someone that you work in logistics? And they say, Well, what is that? You know, or freight brokerage. People are like, “What’s a freight broker?”

Yeah. It's not something that's taught in college, it's not something that that you you to be a freight broker, you either take a course or you learn on the job, there is no other way and it's in which is crazy because it's such a fundamental section of the supply chain, or segment rather, it's it's, it's crazy. They don't have college programs, and I've taken a bunch of college classes that are all in transportation supply chain management, and none of them have anything to do with that the actual broker, half of them, half of the college textbooks you read will not even mention freight brokerage and just say, you know, someone that arranges it, it doesn't even give it a term. So it's a lot of it is talking about it, you know, about to attract people's talking about the industry doing what you guys do and what I tried to do and just and just open it up and say, “Hey, here's the good side. Here's the bad side. This is what you can it this industry truly is what you make of it. So…

Aaron Dunn:

Yeah, yeah, work ethic is super key. I like what you said about that. I mean, you know, you you really gotta hammer down and and work you gotta you know it. There's some kind of weird idea that you'll you'll be awarded the stand up desk and all this other, you know, executive stuff. And I guess it's because, you know, when you do, like, deeper work or you, you you, it's not a concrete like, everybody knows what a truck driver, it's easier to imagine the work a truck driver does, right? So it's easier to imagine what kind of work effort would be required, what kind of effort would be required. It's harder or even like sports or other industries, it's harder to imagine what work looks like when you do sit behind a desk, but there is intentional work that has to be done to, to make a career successful. And it does take a person with a passion to say, yeah, this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm going to really commit to this to make that happen. 

Michael Clements:

The learning aspect to me too, is something that everybody wants to do at eight to five, and then they don't want to worry about having to get better after hours, or what are they doing for self-development? And I think that's something they're missing is that they think that you just, you get all the things by just working eight to five, and then, you know, freely doing what you want from till the time you're back at work, and I'm not saying you can't freely do that. But, man, you know, there has there's a level like you're saying, you read constantly you stay ingrained in the industry. You didn't you didn't probably just do that eight to five and then at five o'clock, “Oh, I'm done. I'm going to go do something else now.” That's not how you got so good at what you do and how you got so knowledgeable on it. I think that's a piece that they're missing right now.

Aaron Dunn:

Yeah. And I like sorry, I just wanted to mention what you said about lifestyle. Like that's not the first time that we've heard that in on this podcast. People it's like the six you're gonna find success if you're committed to working your work, whatever work you want to do into your actual lifestyle and a lifestyle is 100% all the time. That's what you're doing. You might you know, you're bathing in it all the time. You might not always be, you know, pressing on the gas or what have you, but you're always around it, you're inside of it, and this is this is your life. 

Stephen Oatley: 

But yeah, I it's, for me, the job starts at five in the morning when I wake up and it goes until about one o'clock when I finally fall asleep in the morning. You know, be Because I'm, I work I'm in front of the computer until 11. And then I'm watching TV and I and I oftentimes have to rewind, because I'll be like, wait, I was just thinking about some random thing that happened during the day or something like that. And the thing about the broker aspect it in no way shape or form is being afraid broker an eight to five or nine to five job. There isn't. If you're going to be an effective broker, or brokerage owner or even employee, you have to make sure that you're available while that truck is under load, you know, because something could happen at two o'clock in the morning and that driver, you know, how many times I've gotten calls from drivers at two o'clock in the morning because they blew a tire and they're going to be late and they're just trying to be honest and say, “Hey, I'm going to be delayed I just want to let you know.” I don't yell at them at two o'clock in the morning and I say “All right, do you need anything?” You know, I found roadside for people, I've advanced people money at three o'clock in the morning because they screwed up and were tired and didn't pay attention to that the fact that they ran out of fuel or found service for them or whatever, truck parking there's, it's it's a very important job. It hasn't… you have a lot of responsibility in it. And I think to a lot of people, especially the, the the bigger brokers that are just, you know, funneling in employees,  training them, trying to see if they're successful, if not booting them, those guys are the ones that really have to take that focus and let the people that they're training and they have the responsibility to train to let them know it isn't just an eight to five job. It's an ongoing job. You know, as a carrier. I always hated that when I would call, I'd book a load at three o'clock, I'd get to pick up and they're all over the rake on it. So you have to call after you load you have to call after you load. I call them at 5:05 and I get a voicemail saying they’ll return at nine o'clock in the morning. It's one of the most annoying things to me, you know, just be be fluid in your job and care about what you're doing. And I think that is one of the major disconnects between carriers and brokers right now because we all know there's there's a lot of them. But that is one of the major disconnects is a lot of carriers don't feel that they're being respected by brokers. Rates aside and all that, because that doesn't matter for the conversation. But just in terms of respect, that's it. That's a big one. You know, if you have a broker that is not present in the transaction, the only thing it seems like they're trying to do is make a profit and not care, you know, about the driver who's calling and, you know, a lot of these drivers don't talk to anybody. So when they call, they'll be like, “Hey, I want to find out about the load but also I want to talk about my life,” because they’re not talking about it with anybody else. And and, and those are my one of my very good friends started out as a driver and a driver that did a load for me, and he's a very good guy I know about his kids. I've met him, you know, he's a very, very good close friend now. And and he started off as a driver and just communicating and just being honest, it is that communication is is something that also lacks in the workforce now too, with the whole millennial generation because people text and IM and Snapchat and do all that stuff. There's very little face to face interaction going on. And then remote workplaces. Let's not get me started.

Michael Clements:

So Steven, what do you what do you think right now where are where are millennials missing it as freight brokers in their service to carriers?

Stephen Oatley: 

Like I said communication’s probably the biggest one you know a lot of the carriers are calling for transparency that's what what that's what carriers want they want some transparency in the rates. There's this misguided impression that all freight brokers are just making money hand over fist and and taking that or you know, go into the bathtub and swimming and big bathtubs full of money. It's not actually that way but a lot of a lot of carriers have this misguided understanding of what at what it takes to be a broker. And I'm not saying being a broker is hard because it to be honest, it's not. The hardest part of the brokerage process is the sales side. The the actual brokering free, it's easy and it's only going to get easier as tech advances and simplify some of those, you know functions in the transportation booking process. But the the thing that is missing and has been missing truly since I've been involved in the industry is just an understanding between carriers and brokers, you know if if millennials, I mean, maybe it'll help them get worse as like to jump in the truck for a couple of years experience what it's like to drive a truck and be under hours of service and be away from your family. And just understand that, that, yeah, you could be driving along doing 65 miles an hour and you blow a steer tire, you may die, you know what I mean? Understand the risks that are involved in trucking, trucking is still the number one, you know, hazardous job, I believe, I think it from 2019 it's still considered the most dangerous job for an American to have, and because of the likelihood of something horrible happening, and we see it all the time. So I think the best way for someone that wants to get involved in the freight brokerage industry is to spend some time behind the wheel. You know, like a lot of C level guys now you'll see interviews and they're talking talking about how when they got involved in the industry, they jumped in the truck and lived in a truck for a week or so to get that experience. And those are the guys that have the connection to the industry. Those are the guys that understand what it's like to be a driver, and the brokerage owners, they try to incentivize the carriers that work with them. And those are some of the big brokers that have these very elaborate driver programs and, and rewards and gifts. I mean, there's something as simple as sending a sweater or a sweatshirt to a driver sets them off, and they'll be your best friend for that, you know. And I think that's probably the number one piece of advice I could give to the millennial generation or the generation that's following up is if you have the opportunities, you know, before you get married and have kids, you finish college you realize, okay, you do not have any, anything you could provide to the workforce. There's too many people who have this big fancy degree in psychology, which is pointless anyway. So why don't you jump in the truck and just get some experience behind the wheel you'll make actually decent money. It's a driver’s market. Right now anyway, even for a new driver, get the experience behind the wheel, understand it, and then, you know, jump out after a year or two. And, and, you know, then go to a brokerage and try to get a job because I guarantee you'll, I would, if I had a choice of a driver who drove for two years that had a master's degree in some BS degree program, that doesn't matter. Anyway, if you can't tell like this industry, there's no logistics program. So any other degree in the industry is not really helpful to me when I say that it's ironic because I'm going to college because I want to create a a freight broker program in a college I want to and the only way I could do that is by having a degree unfortunately, so I actually have to go, but I'm still gonna talk about what a waste of time it is. But, you know, I just lost my focus I lost I was talking about.

Aaron Dunn:

No, well, you're touching on like, people finding success early in the industry and how the best way to do that is to get inside of a truck. I was going to ask you about getting you know what your advice would be. You’re crusing... I mean, the trucking vibes are real on Trucking for Millennials today for sure. So, but I wanted to touch on that, like, okay, say there is a driver out there that wants to make that transition and get into get into the brokerage seat the broker side for maybe its health reasons, maybe it's for whatever reason, you know, maybe they wanted a little bit more hometime that kind of thing. Do you do you suggest jumping into a freight brokerage and learning the ropes that way? Or do you? I mean, what if they've got that industry knowledge, that industry experience and they just want to kind of set it up from home? Like you you've got?

Stephen Oatley: 

No, yeah, well, no, so I think this is this is gonna tick maybe some of your viewers off but I'm very opinionated on this. So I think that if you want to start your own trucking company, meaning you want to go out file for your own numbers, buy your own company and all that you need to have some verifiable time. We we saw it in late 2018 2019. A bunch of people just went out, got fresh CDLs went out and spent way too much money on trucks, jumped into the industry not knowing what they were doing, and not knowing how to run a business. You know, I interviewed a guy a month ago that I asked what is the cost to operate was and he said 36 cents a mile. If people just don't know, you know, the right way, I'm a firm believer that if you want to be involved in a trucking company, or start a trucking company and file for your numbers with FMCSA, you should have to prove that you have experienced and you're ready to own your company. I feel the same way about brokerage. I think there needs to be some sort of universal credential to to prove that you are not going to be a bad broker, that you understand what rates are and how to get rates you understand that you have to pay your carriers. Some some people don't understand or they enter the workforce. They spend the money to get the brokerage authority up and running and buy the bonds and all that and then they say and they type on social media and they say, “All right, I'm fully set up. How do I get customers?” Or or, or he's the best one “I finally got a customer. Now where do I post the load?” Like they don't, a lot of people don't have the knowledge. So I firmly believe there needs to be a credentialing program for people that want to get into the industry. And in order to get a segment of that credential just like any other certification, you need to have you need to prove that you have the experience in the industry so that you know a driver coming off of the road while they may have a good understanding what it's like to be a trucker, they don't understand the brokerage side of things. Yeah. So what I would, you know, say is that go be a broker for a little bit. Learn, you know, and then it becomes another battle because you got to fight with non-competes and all that crap that all the big brokers all do, they all put everyone under non-competes. But if you can get experience that way, it'll it'll save you because a lot of people go and they spend the 3500 bucks or whatever it is to get their bond and then they become a broker and they may get a customer to but then they realize, “Hey, I'm not making a lot of money,” or it's taking me a long time to actually turn a profit on this after spending it. So that was a very long answer to say that, yes, they should go work for a different broker and actually get brokerage experience either as an agent where you're directly supervised because I've done that for people to where they come in, they work in my office there. They're a contractor, an agent, they're on their own, but I'm there teaching them showing them. The best experience I ever had in the transportation industry happened about three years ago, I moved down I'd been a broker for years, I worked for big brokers and everything. I moved down here to Florida to work for a company. I won't even talk about that. But it was it was a joke, but I got placed in an office with a carrier sales guy. And I tell you, I could not work because I was sharing an office but I could not work because this guy. He was like an artist on the phone. Every single time he talked to a carrier. He was their best friend. If he was talking to you. He had different accent. For every single person that he talked to on the phone, one day, he'd have a southern accent. The next day would be Jamaican the next day or, you know, Spanish like, but he was the best salesperson I've ever had on. And I've actually used that when I went back to being an active broker all the time. I use the way the sales techniques that he used while doing carrier sales. I've used those to land customers, I've used that those to sell loads, and I wouldn't have that experience if I had never worked for anybody else. And it was such it. I mean, I talked about that all the time, because he's literally the best carrier sales person I've ever met in my life. And I met a lot of them, but…

Aaron Dunn:

Are you telling us that you've got a killer Jamaican accent?

Stephen Oatley: 

No, that was not me. No, he's, I mean, his name is Kevin. That's all I'll say. But he's, he's a very he's probably the best carrier sales rep and most personally, he's just so nice. But you would sit there and you would listen to them and I literally was like watching a movie. You know, my back was to him when he was working. And he'd be like, “Oh, let me check with my manager,” and he put them on hold all the sales tactics that brokers do, you know, putting them on hold and then twiddling your thumbs for 45 seconds to try to negotiate a rate even though you're not calling anyone all that stuff. And then he come back and he'd be like, “Man, they're only going to pay about 25 bucks more,” and but he did it in such a nice way he had like a carriers would normally it's they just flocked to the guy like I would have people like all about load them. They're like, “Hey, does Kevin work there? Oh, yeah, I booked the load with him six months ago. Can I can I deal with him?” And then I’m like, “Are you sure? Like I can help you too. I'll give you a better rate.” “No, we'll deal with Kevin.” Because he was such a nice guy. He was just and and and like I said, I would have never had that experience. And I would have never been able to up my like carrier sales game without being there and learning that and if you go directly into the brokerage world, besides being unprepared to actually work in it, you're not going to have those experiences and see those people that are just great at it. I mean, you guys, you're relatively young, I think like me, millennials, that old term, and you're successful in the industry, you know, you learned it somewhere. And now it's, it's the same thing is, you know, our job is kind of to end this, what I always say is our job is to teach the next generation coming in the way that we want in the way that we envision the industry going. And I think that's one thing that was lacking for us, is because we came into an industry where everyone was pretty much set in the way they wanted to do things, and they didn't necessarily want to want to change. And now with the advancements of tech and the advancements in the industry, in general, we kind of have to guide that next generation and, and say, “Okay, this is this is how we want it done. But this is also how we want it done for our kids.” And, and, and, and as as the industry progresses and to show, you know, care about it. So the only way you can do that is by working with other people, because otherwise you're just going to be listening to podcasts and watching videos and I don't object I mean, that's how Freight Broker Live was, you know, born. But that's that's the most important thing for me. And the way I became a better broker, even though I started on my own was working for other people and listening.

Michael Clements:

Steven, you bring up some really good points and I kind of fit the bill for the guy that got into trucking that, you know, in 2013, I'm the millennial that started a trucking company that had no prior experience in trucking. I was part of a manufacturing business that needed trucking and the trucking companies that worked for us didn't do very well. They were charging really high fuel. You know, fuel surcharges and things after diesel went back down from $4 a gallon. There's just a lot of a lot of stuff that motivated us there but you know, two years into our business, that's whenever I got into the brokerage side of it, and it was strictly driven because, I mean, I constantly dealt with brokers, you know, from the larger brokerages in America, after dealing with them, I just felt like I was dealing with some punk on the other end of the phone. And I thought there was a higher level that someone could offer out there. And I felt like if they were treating me and my drivers like they were, they were treating other people like that as well. So I felt like there was room for a higher standard of service out there for carriers. And that's what we've been building our business on. But man, you touch on some really good things there. I wish I had experience at a large brokerage before I started our brokerage. I do. And I think I think it would have helped us out in the long run. I think there's a lot of stuff we've had to take on the chin, a lot of learning experiences that could have been curbed, had I been at a larger brokerage and learn these things. But, you know, ultimately we find herself in the situation we're in we have to make the most of it. 

Stephen Oatley: 

Right. Yeah, I mean, that's that's how I got involved in the industry too is I I saw a need and I started in it, you know, and I'm self taught. I say that a lot. So I I've I've done a lot of things wrong. We didn't have social media like, well, I'm not that old, but we didn't have like, you know, all these Facebook groups and all that stuff when I first started so or maybe we didn't, I just didn't know. You know, I kind of I just learned on my own, excuse me, and utilizing different resources, different things and it just helps and like you said, you, you see a need for something and you see what's working wrong, I know all too well about getting the guy that's just a pain in the butt on the phone and just treating you like you're garbage or trying to take advantage of the situation or, you know, it. And that's that's kind of what I told myself, you know, against you know, I, I say it a lot you know, I know not I know what not to do. So let me show you how you can do it right. You know, and and a lot of times you get that experience either by working with other people or just really just being quick and understanding it because that's the thing. Obviously there's people that can be successful without getting that experience. It's still I don't know if you've ever toured like a big brokerage like a current brokerage, I had the opportunity to go tour a large broker in Atlanta last month. And I walked around, they had basketball hoops and they had pool tables and they had all this stuff and it was super cool. And I was like, like it I like the stand up desk. Those are pretty neat. You press the button the thing raises up you know, I had one at one place that I worked it was great. I'm gonna buy one actually. But the the thing about that that tech com- or that that freight brokerage massive broker, like the, I think it was like 40,000 square foot just on that that one area I saw. The thing is, they just they got it, you know what I mean? They all the C level people were like our age, you know, it's, you know, it's a relative. It wasn't a relatively new company, but it brought in and it picked out the previous C level. They picked out the people that had that drive and that had that gumption. Like, that's my favorite word for some reason, but they had that, you know, to go out and just and change the industry. And then those kids, I, you know, I'm still a kid, but they had brought all those people in, and then they did it and they picked out the right people. So those companies do have massive turnovers. But if you look at the manager level and up, they're all us, you know, they learned from either working for somebody else or just, you know, making it for themselves. And and the thing we have to remember is that we have to keep doing that, especially as we advance in the industry, we just have to keep impressing that hey, this is a really good industry to get in whether you're driving or whether you're brokering you just got to do it right or try try your best to do it right and be prosperous and and just not screw up the industry for the next generation of bozos that are doing it.

Aaron Dunn:

And, and you know what you're, I think what you're touching on is the fact that you need to be truthful, you need to be honest, transparent and work very, very hard to do your best, I guess. I mean, that's, that's the thing because, you know, you just have to be honest with yourself when you don't have all the info you don't have the background or what have you just have to be honest. And, you know, if if, if you want to succeed, and you want to succeed quickly, you still have to have some patience, but you have to know what you don't you have to be committed to learning. So you can pick up on that make up for that experience gap. You know, you're either learning so you can pick up on the experience gap, or you're learning through experience, you know, and kind of learning through osmosis by you know, connecting with somebody working alongside somebody that already has that experience. So you can just kind of soak that up, but to start out on your own and just kind of, you know, make it up as you go, you're gonna find yourself in more trouble than it's worth. Man. We don't want to take too much of your time. I mean, we're cooking here with with the with everything but I wanted to you know, it'd be remiss, we talked about you know, career in general the freight broker career and and trucking, be remiss if we didn't talk about your work at on freightbrokerlive.com and trucking news and that kind of stuff like that the media side I mean, you're doing a lot in that space. So talk a little bit about trucking news and media, listen to your one of your most recent podcasts. I think you're talking about, you know, giving a better side and a more positive spin to the industry. If you could talk about that. I think that's a really important point.

Stephen Oatley: 

Yeah, in media, and just like I said in that article, I'm super guilty of everything that I'm about to say, you know, I've covered the negative things, the trucking company closures, the layoffs, the trucker violence, which is a new thing that's now starting to become mainstream. It's something It's always been happening. But now it's starting to, you know, because drivers are really at a disadvantage, or at least it seems that they're at a disadvantage with low rates and higher cost to operate. And then so now that when you look at all the stuff paid parking all that there's just so much negativity in the industry versus positive things, which it irritates me. So when I first started freight broker live, it was primarily just the videos and then I realized I was I was making videos about news that I disagreed with. And then I was like, you know, I didn't want to do that anymore. And I wanted to highlight some of the good things in my experiences in the industry and, and, and make it so that there was some content out there that people would actually feel good about after they read it. And so I decided to create the actual news brand. And so I started covering news stories that I thought were relevant. I created the website for freightbrokerlive.com And so now I cover news stories that that I think are important. When I first started it was I covered the news stories that I wanted and then to gain traction, I would write about the negative things in the industry, the things that were bad, trucking companies closing, you know, the probably the biggest story ever reported on was Omnitracs when their system went down and what a whatever it was October, November, and their system crash and all that 75,000 trucks were without ELD temporarily. 10 years ago, that wasn't even the main news one because we didn't have the ELDs and secondly, every single driver knew how to do paper logs. The problem the reason why it was such a big deal is the drivers didn't understand the paper logs. And that article actually taught me a lot because I realized, okay, you can write about something and have it be receptive, but you have to, you know, for me to be honest about about the industry. I want to I want to improve the industry, I guess. I mean, I covered I mean, I covered the the truck stop shooting that happened at the TA at the Oklahoma City here. And without getting into specifics about it it actually really, really bothered me. After all the details came out and all the stuff that I had discovered about it, it really started to, to bug me granted the situation was bad, but it was also the decisions because I made the conscious decision. You know, I knew about every all the names and the people that were all involved on Thursday, but I made a decision not to print any names and to try to keep things…I didn't want to glorify the situation. I didn't want to glorify the shooting, I didn't want to glorify anything about that whole incident. And then on Saturday, everyone just started printing all the information, printed the guy’s names and, and printed everything and it just became it became a novelty just to get clicks. And, and just to you know, just to try to get you know, people that go to your website and I want to be different than that. I don't care about you know, It's, it's cool for me to to create content and have people read it. I mean, I really enjoy it. But I don't want to be lumped together with some of these other entities that are just about trying to drive traffic to their website. That's not it, I want to actually impact the industry. So I want to write about things that are that are important. Now, when a trucking company closes, yes, it's important. Well, you know, if you have the big mega fleet that closes, it's super important. You got a small fleet that closes, it's still very important. But when you're when you're covering, you know, layoffs of that are .6% of the total workforce of a company and and it's widely covered, you know, every single other free media outlet out there except mine covered these these little tiny layoffs. And it's and I know what it is, it's because that's what everyone's reading. Now, you trucking companies are closing all this stuff all this bad in the industry. So I made a decision that if I still have a duty to report when the trucking company closes, so I'll do that in one paragraph and the rest of the whole article, I'm just going to talk about the good in the industry. Let's talk about how many people have decided to make the decision to enter the job. I'll talk about one testimonial about someone that's happy to be in the industry. And it's going to be hard. There's, there's been several trucking companies that I can't write about that I know that are closing or that they, you know, are experiencing something that's negative. And there's not a lot of good to write about to do try to follow through with what I said. So it's, I don't I want to set myself I want to set Freight Broker Live apart from the other media outlets, I want it to just be a really helpful resource. I have a hard time not being opinionated clearly. So I want to just be honest with with the readers and try to, you know, tone down the level of my intensity, because I know I'm super intense all the time, especially in the live videos and the podcast. But to tone it down and just give you know, I guess an optimistic outlook on the industry and to say, “Hey, listen, I don't it doesn't need to be bad.” You don't need to see a trucking company laying off 50 drivers as a bad thing because 900 drivers or 900 new trucking companies have all filed for their authority in the two days since that happened. You know what I mean? It, you know, we have a driver’s market. Fuel prices are low, cost of operators is super high, insurance is super high all that stuff insurance carriers are pulling out of the market or increasing premiums, that's all negative stuff. But if you bunch it all together, then what what I found it it does is it gives a lot of content in one so you see a negative about the industry. You see a positive you see a negative you see a positive and then it just really gives a real universal approach into to media. And that's that's what I really want to do. I want to highlight the good in the industry. I love this industry. I don't want to see it, I don't want to see it disappear. You know, I don't want to see it just be negative. 

Michael Clements:

Yeah, man. It seems like it's being picked apart all the time. I agree. It's…You know, we talked on our last podcast about the culture of the industry. And I think it starts with the leaders of the industry. And I appreciate that your outlet is wanting to put out positive news. I think it's important to report the news. But it's not important to get clicks. And and you're exactly right that it seems like we fallen into the same trap that the national media and everything else is falling in. And I think there has to be people out there that are willing to report on the good things that are happening. And now kudos to you on that. 

Stephen Oatley: 

That's why I was thinking someone actually suggested this morning to write when if a trucking company closes because people do want to know people do want to understand because it gives a good update, people feel like it gives a good impression on what the industry is doing, which it doesn't actually that shows, in some cases mismanagement. In some cases. You know, there was a recent example where a very small company was highlighted as this company that had been in business for 10 years. And they no longer could afford to operate in this, this climate. That's what the the article read except when you actually look into the company, they had a really bad SAFER score, they had didn't really have a great track track record, the insurance costs went up because their SAFER score, because in 24 months, they had, you know, nine violations. And six of those were out of service, of course, their insurance going to go up, they had accidents, and then you go on further and you do, you know, you look up and they got several freight guide reports for and that those are the companies that we need to close. Those are the companies that need to close and the bad part about it is, you know, that, you know, even even the common in our one of the articles I read is that the guys like yeah, insurance is bad, everything's bad. So we're just going to take a year off, and then we'll, we'll try to start again. And that's what a lot of companies do is they run one company thick. I'm not saying that's what this one did. But a lot of people are doing that. Now, there was just I think, I don't know if I even wrote an article, one company that had, I think it was like 20 different companies in a six year period, because they kept getting pulled and and and you know, and we have all sorts of stuff. There's insurance agents that are committing fraud, we have so much negative in the industry, it's really hard sometimes to showcase the positive. But I think as a media media entity, because I think I can call myself that now, a media entity has to take responsibility for what we want. And if my goal is to instill fear and panic and cause people not to get involved in the industry, then I'll keep reporting it how everyone else does, but that's not my goal. My goal is to try to make the industry appealing to the next generation of people that are coming in to make it appealing, frankly, for the people that are in it. You know, how many how many times do you look at a brokerage closing or something? You know any of these the tech hackings or any of that they don't matter. That's that's the cost of doing business. As we evolved in freight tech, you're going to have hacking, you're going to have vulnerabilities, it's how you deal with it, you know, with you know, Truckstop had their Ransomware attack, I think in December, how they dealt with it and how they rebounded was was very good. TQL, you know, I just broke that story yesterday, they're rebounding. I mean, they handled it masterfully. If you ask me, you know, they're they sent out notices to the customers. And that's that's the story. The story isn't the fact that they got hacked. The story is how they're, they're rebounding from it, whether or not you even like the company, it doesn't matter. It's the story of how someone persevered through the bad. You know, and I think essentially, anyone who operates a trucking company or broker brokerage in this industry has a story to tell. And that story is, I mean, you guys do it on your show. That's what your show is, you're highlighting those people that have the stories and that that are actively working in the industry every day. I'm more of like a news. You know, and I just cover the news and try very badly to keep my opinion out of the news. But, you know, the only thing I don't talk about is politics ever but that's it. That's the biggest thing is just you know, my goal for Freight Broker Live is to and to be honest, to be honest about the industry and it gets, try to make it appealing and try to make people say okay, you know, here's this article I've tried so hard to like mainstream some of these articles, you know, like, you know different tech companies that are coming out because I think that is the future of, of the brokerage industry that's the future of the carrier side not autonomous trucks on you know, that's probably 200 years from now or 300 years from now that's not anything we have to worry about. But automating the logistics process you can never automate like what you do, Michael, the sales portion of it that can never be automated, but every single other step could and it's not a bad thing you know, automated unit using book it now functionality and all this stuff to to simplify the brokerage jobs, you can spend more time on helping your carrier and helping your carrier to succeed, helping your customers to better their situation. I know there's been a lot of negativity right now about the whole book it now thing but if you actually take a step back and you look at it, and you think about what kind of control that has for the carrier, what kind of control that has for the broker. I think that is one of the things and that's why I cover it incessantly every single time a new book it now feature is released, I don't care who releases it, I cover it. Because it's it's, it's just something who knows which one's actually going to be successful. Any of these great startups or tech companies could go down in two days, you don't know, they can lose funding, you know, unless they're privately funded, you know, and VCs are pulling out left and right from these big, you know, VC backed tech companies because they, they don't see the end game they don't see when companies are going to turn a profit, because they're not. And so that's kind of one of the the things that I find interesting too, as being like a freight, freight tech guy is when is someone actually going to get it? And then to think about how much money they're gonna make when they get it ticks me off because I want to be a part of that company. But you know, it's, it's, it's interesting. It's very, you know, the industry. I mean, as you could tell, I love this industry. I'd like to…with a passion, it's if I, I'm just I'm not that much of a dork that I have logistics tattooed across my chest, but I swear I would do it because I, you know, you put your wife’s name or your kids, I got my kids on it, I put logistics because I hold it in the same regard. You know, I really love the industry, I love reading about it, and I love I just truly have a passion for it. And now the whole purpose of Freight Broker Live is trying to share that passion, honestly. So if it's a bad thing, whatever, it's a bad thing. You know, my news, my new pact, I'm giving a solution. This morning the suggestion this morning, when I write about a trucking closure, it's going to be an anonymous trucking company, you're not going to know anything. I’ll report on it just like I would any other company, or it just like I did before, except I'm just gonna take out the company name. And that way… it will ruin it, yes. Because I know I know of a 45-truck fleet that just shut down. You know, they're there. They're done. You know, and they just announced it today. They had a meeting this morning. You know, I was talking to to someone very close and I and he's like, “Yeah, I could put you in contact with him.” And I said, yeah, I'll talk to… When I talked to him, and I said, “I'm not gonna put your company name,” he's like, “What do you mean?” And I said, “I'm not gonna print your name, I'm not gonna print the company name, I'm just gonna say, a trucking company from California, or from Ohio or whatever, not even say city and state.” And and that way other people if they want to be the bearer of bad news and because think about how hard it is, if any, you guys ever had a venture or a business or something that you're super passionate about and you cared about a lot, and you lost it, it sucks. And so think about any of these companies that have poured their heart and soul into the industry. And just to have it gone because whatever they it, whatever happened to have it gone, I'm just not gonna glorify it anymore. You know, and I'm gonna see see it's not going to get clicks I understand it's not going to do anything. I also may just make a little ticker. So every time a new company closed, maybe it will just you know, like other sites have like pricing power and all that stuff with like a little gauge. Maybe I'll just make that set the problem with you know, it have two, have one on the top. It's just how many companies file for the authority that day and have one on the bottom that shows how many companies closed because I guarantee that number on the top is always going to be over like this. Because way more companies are starting, way more business owners are starting their industry every day. And they're excited to do it. And I don't want to be the guy that sends out an email and has them say, “Oh, I made a mistake. I don't want to do this because I saw a different company closed.” That's not my goal in the industry. And if I get to that point, I want people to email me and say, “Hey, Steve, you're done. You turn get out of the business.” So

Aaron Dunn:

Love it, man. Love it.

Michael Clements:

Loving the passion.

Stephen Oatley: 

Yeah, bud. 

Aaron Dunn:

I think you should get a logistics tattooed across your chest. I think that's the next…I think that's the like, if you want to get a number of you know, you you want to you want to climb the charts of of trucking industry news. If you want to go I think that's it.

Stephen Oatley: 

That's that's what I gotta do. Yeah, I used to when I when I met my wife, I used to joke that I want to get the word awesome across my chest. She said why would you want to do that? Like, are you kidding? Have you seen me? You know, awesome. And then it? It's always been a joke. Yeah, I'll never get logistics tattooed across my chest. It would be, it's funny to think about but, you know, things I got are things that are it. It's very important though, you know, it's, it's, it's just it's, it's very important this this industry is very important. We need, you know, in, we need appropriate representation. You know, we need a good organization out there that's actually fighting for, you know, we have we have, you know, in the ATA and all those other groups that are, you know, fighting for some people and other people don't feel like OOIDA. And then there's other groups that have the platform, but don't have the leadership to actually do stuff. That's what we need and the only thing I can do because I'm not a political person, well I am I'm just, I don't get involved with politics in my professional life is just right, and be honest and just try to express my I guess, both my adorment for the industry and my disdain for it, too, I've left the industry quite a bit. I left, I became a firefighter, and then realized it couldn't make any money, came back. I left and worked construction. I didn't, you know, because the industry and being a broker, it's you know, you know from doing every day it gets repetitive and it gets boring once you already got the customer. The novelty of actually being a broker, for me is the sales process. If I'm not doing sales, and I'm just booking freight, it's not that fun. You know, I don't care that much about money. I'm good there. It's more about actually doing something you know the best. That's my favorite, and I'll make this quick. My favorite move that I ever did was a huge crane move so 36 different truckloads. I went out and I met with them I saw the crane up we saw it down. I supervised the loading. Did I have to be there to do it? No, but I did it because that's that's the passion. I wanted to see how the crane takes apart the other crane and puts eat and loads each one. I wanted to see the pilot cars and the pole cars for the big pieces, I just wanted to be immersed in it. And, yeah, I made a boatload of money because they were 36 oversize loads, and the customer paid a lot of money for it. But it was down. That's, that's what logistics is about to me, or, you know, a reverse logistics is really another interesting one too, when it comes back from a retailer, and it goes back to you know, wholesale chains and things like that, and the wholesalers, you know, out. Those are, that's very interesting when you look at the actual supply chain from the whole thing. It's such an interesting process. And if you think back to how, I mean, it could be tracked back, you know, since man, we always had to do stuff, you know, we always had to pick something up and carry it over there. You know, it's, it's just a very interesting industry and I sound like a dork. I know I I really. I really love the industry though.

Aaron Dunn:

But but that's what it takes to find, you know, to have success in anything. You got to have a passion and commitment and be, you know, at least willing entertain the idea of getting it tatted on your skin. You just can't, you know. And you're right. It's just you, you. You're saying all the right things for sure.

Michael Clements:

But I think it also is good because I hear words like fun, exciting, interesting. And I don't think there's anybody that gets into trucking because it's not fun because it's not interesting because it's not exciting. But I think what's what's good is that you've been able to continue that passion for years. It's not just one of those like you woke up one morning said, I think I want to get in trucking. You know, and now you're miserable doing it like you you love what you do. And I think there's a lot of people out there like yourself, and we need to hear more from those type of individuals than the individuals that are constantly running the industry down on Facebook boards, and everything else that negativity does nothing good for our business.

Aaron Dunn:

Right, right. Highlighting the you know, falling in love with the freight man. You know, that's what you're talking about. You're falling in love with the freight that it's moving across America, and there's… Talking about a story. There's a story behind every Trump line for sure. 

Stephen Oatley: 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think and here's here's my last thing because I do gotta run, but I think 2020 is going to be a very good year. I know the Dow is down for the all time highs and all that stuff. I really think because of the coronavirus and all that once, once that's all fixed, and containers are coming in, we're gonna see a capacity crunch rates are going to go up. I was talking to my wife about buying a truck and doing my whole little shindig from behind the wheel. Because which she said no, actually she said yes leave bye and then she said no. Because you do it. But it because I think it's gonna be a good year. It's gonna be a good year to get in trucking. It's gonna be a good year to be a broker and I just want to do my part in just let people know that. Just do it the right way. You know what I mean? If you're a broker and you're starting out and you're just getting started out, yeah, you're gonna get customers pay your carriers, pay him on time, respect carriers, if you're in trucking, make sure you know how to drive the truck. That's, that's the biggest one you get people that can get a CDL in a week now, so make sure you know how to drive, make sure you're comfortable behind the wheel. You know, that's, that's my biggest advice and if you love the industry, work in it and if you hate it go work somewhere else don't work in this industry. If you don't like… go to Washington, the minimum wage is like 15 bucks an hour there now so you can go flip burgers and make more than you can make as an entry level freight broker. So you might as well just go go do something else. You know, if you really don't like the industry, don't destroy it, because you don't like it just go somewhere else.

Michael Clements:

Amen. 

Aaron Dunn:

All right. Hey, you said that you're gonna be at MATS. 

Stephen Oatley: 

I'm gonna be at MATS. Yeah, I'm gonna be there. I'm gonna drive up Wednesday, so I'll be there Thursday, Friday. And then Saturday, I'm just gonna take off because I heard Saturday is kind of a crap show. 

Aaron Dunn:

Gotcha. 

Stephen Oatley: 

I've never been but it should be fun. You know, I'm I'm being paid to be there but I'm not making any appearances right I want to see the trucks I want to… Have you guys been? 

Michael Clements:

Tis will be our first time. 

Stephen Oatley: 

Really? It's apparently awesome like everyone's like just just hanging out outside the whole time because that's where all the fun is all the trucks are out there you know they barbecues and also…so yeah, I have your number Aaron now so once I get up there I'll send you a text and that yeah, it should it should be fun I'm very excited about it. So I got a bunch of people all the people from DAT and Trucker Tools and all them are going to be there so it's a very excited about just going up and seeing the trucks and seeing the people and that's different than the event we I met you guys at in November because this one is trucking. This one is just trucking through and through you know and and so you're going to see people that people actually do it not that was a fun event you had a lot of C level and all that and a lot of cool people but this is going to be you know, this is gonna be a this is gonna be…

Aaron Dunn:

This is trucking America.

Stephen Oatley: 

This is the people that move. This is the people that are actually doing the job every day. And that's, that's who I want to connect with. Those are the people… C level people, sure. That's nice. I'm glad they liked my show and they listened and all that. Just listen to what I actually say, you know, try to implement some changes. You guys are doing good for a little company that's, you know, just started and being young. And I mean that that in itself is a struggle. Yeah. And I wonder if you've encountered that yet. Mike, just being a younger guy, when you walk into a place and you go meet a logistics, you know, manager or something, and you go in and they're like, “Wait, you're Michael?” I had that happen a lot where they expect it, you know, my voice and I carry on and they expected me to be an older guy, and I get in there and I'm just a young kid, and I don't wear ties. I don't do any of that stuff. So I walked into board meetings and I'm sitting there in shorts and a T shirt and like, “All right, let's get it done.” That's, that's my thing. I like to be I myself, you know, so, yeah, I look forward to seeing you guys. I don't even know when it is. It's in like three weeks, right?

Aaron Dunn:

Yeah. And a mark.

Stephen Oatley: 

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be fun. I'm I'm actually very, very excited to go there. I'm like asking everybody I know. I've asked you like three times because I am I'm excited about it because I just think it's gonna be cool just to be around and like I said, I love trucks. You know, I might, my son loves trucks…they're not coming up because of school. But I love trucks. That's how I got started in the industry was driving. You know, if I had if I didn't have kids, my wife and I would be in in a truck driving around every single day, and we'd be annoying the hell out of each other. But we we'd be there doing it. So Alright guys, I gotta run though. Hey, thank you for having me, guys.

Aaron Dunn:

Awesome, man. Good stuff.

Michael Clements:

Hey, you know what, Aaron, I think this is a good time to say that I think Jim Bob Wason got it right whenever he reviewed the Trucking for Millennials show, “Super great podcast about trucking.” I'd have to agree. Steven was a great show today and enjoyed it and

Aaron Dunn:

Yes, it was really good, really good. couldn't have said it better myself. Well, what's his name? Jim, Bob Wason, Jim Bob. Awesome, awesome five star fan of the podcast. Really appreciate that feedback. If you, listener, who have yet to review Trucking for Millennials, want to be a five star fan, leave a five star review and we will give you a shout out on the next episode.

Michael Clements:

Awesome. Trucking for Millennials. Over and out.

Aaron Dunn:

Yes sir