Episode 6 - Money, Flexibility, or Both?
This week in Millennial Stuff Michael and Aaron start the episode discussing a recent New York Times article about how the Millennial generation is changing office life by expecting flexible work schedules.
NY Times Article: "Young People Are Going to Save Us All From Office Life"
That brings us straight into our Trucking Stuff segment (24:40) which is a conversation Michael had with Anthony, a millennial trucking company recruiter.
They have an excellent conversation about how he entered and found success in the industry, and what he's hearing from the younger workforce as he engages with them every day.
Anthony has an inspiring story and very practical advice about how young people can find success in the industry for the long term.
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“11 years ago, I just got out of college. I was living in my car. I was literally living in my car, had to pick up my son. When I went to go pick up my son. We had to stay in a hotel for the weekend because I didn't have a place to live. It was so high. So, so expensive. And once I figured out, hey, just because I have this degree, that doesn't mean necessarily I'm going to get a job walking straight out of college. the trucking industry turned my life around. Like I went from living in my car to living in a house, buying a boat. A beautiful wife. Everything I've ever wanted.”
Michael Clements
Welcome to Trucking for Millennials where we engage with the future of freight happening now. My name is Michael Clements.
Aaron Dunn
And I'm Aaron Dunn. And we're here to help trucking and logistics professionals stay up to date and ahead of the curve.
Michael Clements
As our industry evolves, we're connecting with every step of the supply chain as part of our mission to increase transparency and provide a world class freight solutions.
Aaron Dunn
Okay.
Michael Clements
Trucking for Millennials. Yes, here we are.
Aaron Dunn
Yeah, once again once again you're back from a little trip.
Michael Clements
I had a little trip. Yeah, I got to go on my own little trucking adventure except that was in a four wheeler. I guess what the truck drivers call a four wheeler. We had a little road trip. A little over 1000 miles. I drove through Canada.
Aaron Dunn
A thousand safe miles!
Michael Clements
A thousand safe miles, I wore my seatbelt. No speeding, of course. They got the drive through Ontario, Quebec, down through Vermont, New Hampshire down to Boston and Main. It was a really fun trip and we had a great time.
Aaron Dunn
Awesome. What are we thinking about?
Michael Clements
Let's talk a little bit about job flexibility today.
Aaron Dunn
Well, yeah, let's just jump right into millennial stuff. Okay, so we got some millennial stuff. So this is, uh, this is gonna be a cool episode, because we've got, you know, some trucking stuff and how like, we're going to feature a conversation that we had with Anthony, who's a recruiter for a trucking company. But before we get into that, this New York Times article just came out a few days ago. It says, “young people are going to save us all from office life.” And it says Gen Z-ers and millennials have been called lazy and entitled, could they instead be among the first to understand the proper role of work in life? And it talks about how younger people are valuing flexible working hours more so then, you know, a status, you know, a job title or even more pay. And how you know the work environment is, is having to adapt to that in varying degrees across a number of industries. It talks about a you know, the first story, it references is a girl named Ariel, who is 28, quit her last job as a project manager in the corporate office of a bank. But it wasn't because of her new employer offered her a raise or a different role or more seniority. It was the work life balance is just much better. She said at a new company, a branding and design firm, everyone worked from home on Tuesdays and Thursdays at whichever hours they choose. And she can do some you know, life stuff like go for a run or walk her dog.
Michael Clements
You know, we'll get into some other stories but I just wonder how many people that are wanting this flexible work schedule, just are sleeping in and they're just sleeping in like “I'm gonna walk my dog” or “I have this going on today” or no… I'm sleeping in, let's just call it what it is.
Aaron Dunn
It goes on to say, you know, many of her friends have chosen their jobs for similar reasons. She said, “That’s how millennials and Gen Z-ers are playing the game. It's not about jumping up titles, but moving into better work environments.” She said, “They're like silent fighters rewriting policy under the nose of the boomers,” which I don't necessarily get why younger people always have this ambition to disrupt the status quo and do some, you know, real big thing but talks about how it's still rare for companies to operate this way. And the obstacles are bigger than any one company's HR policies. Some older employees may think that new hires should suffer the way they did. Employers benefit from having always on workers and you know down a little bit further, it's says they have proven the model that you don't need to be in the office nine to five to be effective, said Anna Recio, the executive vice president of global recruiting at Salesforce, the tech company. It says this generation is single handedly paving the way for the entire workforce to do their jobs remotely and flexibly. So, you know, this caught my attention. Of course, you know, we talk about millennials and younger generations and how they're how, you know, our generation is influencing the workforce of today and especially in freight and logistics and in trucking, specifically, and, you know, it's, you know, we have a younger crew, but none of us really work from home. Well, you know, it's not we do have a little bit of flexibility in terms of how we work I mean, there's, there's times where I'm, you know, managing our social accounts and that kind of thing from my couch at the house or doing stuff remotely. But I just think that there's only a certain set of industries where this degree of flexibility where, you know, you just kind of, hey, do what you want on Tuesdays and Thursdays or what have you could actually work. What do you think about the article you kind of read through it.
Michael Clements
As I was reading, I really was trying to put this in place of what we do. So you know, I was thinking, Okay, if I started being approached more about flexibility and what we do in our in our jobs, and, you know, one thing I caught a common trend is, is that these are sales positions that these people are in marketing agencies, clothing companies, they're not in your traditional, I don't want to say they're not your traditional jobs, but we're not hearing from manufacturers. We're not hearing from transportation companies. And I thought that is that is what Americans in a majority of Americans, those are the companies that they're working for, not for marketing agencies in Portland. So, you know, for work flexibility, I think that there is a there's a new line there that is being drawn, whether that is because of technology or because of millennials or Gen Z-ers, or I don't think that's more of a, I don't think it has anything to do with the age range as much as it has to do with just the technology that's there. And really, I think, stay at home mothers really started this trend probably 5,10, 15 years ago using technology via cell phone. So is this really some new big thing that's happening? A new wave? No, but I definitely think it has caught some steam and it definitely makes employers have to rethink their hours and how they're going to adjust flexibility for the employees.
Aaron Dunn
Mm hmm. And it comes down to you know, how do you determine value I guess from an employee's perspective, you know, how they derive value from a company and you know what, it's kind of this work life integration of, you know, well, I want to get paid this much, but I also want to be sure that I'm off, you know, at this time or I get, you know, x done or y done or what have you. Like, I want to, you know, feel good about where I'm working just as much as I want to feel good about what I'm making, you know, in terms of monetary terms. But I think there's a balance there.
Michael Clements
There definitely is and I think that's part of the story that doesn't get told enough is that I've been approached about flexibility but when I was approached about flexibility, they wanted better pay, they wanted, they wanted to be paid more. And they wanted more flexibility. I feel like that is not those two things don't usually work together. Our one of our core values is we are teamwork. And we are teamwork means we work as a team. And so if we have individuals all over the place trying to do different jobs, and we're not working at a team, how's that a testament to our values? And so, for us to be able to do that in our business, I don't see it as a real possibility for the majority of our workforce. Now we have where we have people in our business that could probably definitely have more flexible hours, but then you have to also take the look, is that fair to the people that have to be there every day? And you know, I think it also just comes down to, you know, kind of a next part of that for employers is, you have to also look and see how is your off time constructed? And how often do you allow employees to take care of their personal things? And is there some types of absence shaming going on in the office from other employees or even from managers? And you know, if you look at it from an employer's perspective, I don't know if I've ever told anybody no, they can't take time off. I don't know if I've ever told anybody no. I've had times when I've wanted to tell somebody no, but it was because maybe the team was going to be short-handed that day, but at the same time like I mean I'm a millennial myself and I know like if I have something I need to go take care of I need to go take care of it, you know, but sometimes you have to get creative maybe ask a family member ask a parent to help out but I definitely you know, I definitely think employers are going to have to be more flexible but coming up with these schedules where you can work what you want… for us being a freight brokerage and a trucking company “Yeah, my driver, yeah, he wants to take off today. He's in Indiana, but he decided he didn't want to work today.” I don't think that's gonna work ever, ever. It'll never work. Also for freight brokers, I I think you can be a freight agent and you can work remotely but being a freight brokerage inside of an office working on a team, I'm not going to say it's impossible because I don't ever want to say that because there may be some cool innovation here in five or 10 years that allows us to do that and do it more effectively than being in front of one another. But at this point in time, I I don't see it in our business even being a possibility.
Aaron Dunn
Yeah, I think you bring up a good point about work the work culture and how, you know, having a team mindset, you know, if you want everybody on the same vision, the same track running in the same direction, it's great to have them in the same place. And, you know, it's important to figure out and balance, you know, who's in the office and who's not and how much time other people see other people because it influences how everybody works at the end of the day. So if you don't see somebody you know, four days out of the week or three days out of the week, it's going to be harder for that team to build a you know, synergy and a trust amongst each other. That's a good point.
Michael Clements
A hot topic right now is culture everybody's talking about culture in the workplace. Well, how are you supposed to have culture if you don't, if you don't meet, you don't get together as a team. No culture is not culture.
Aaron Dunn
Mm hmm. Yeah. Another piece of the article that kind of stood out to me was “Years ago, the interview was, for lack of a better word, a test” said Kamon Bailey, who works in recruiting at Con Edison, the power company. “Now it's a conversation. Yes, I want to show that I'm a good candidate, but I'm also seeing if I'm going to get what I expect.” And that's an interesting, you know, perspective, I think, you know, I've had multiple jobs over, you know, you know, the past decade or what have you, and some of them have been, you know, those type of conversations where, you know, “Hey, I want to make sure that we're meeting in the middle here.” Not necessarily, “Hey, I really, you know, I really need this job and like, I hope I get it,” you know, that type of thing. It's, it's more of that, you know, do we find common ground? Does it make sense to work together? But at the same time, I think that there can be a…an eagerness to make certain demands or you know have these set expectations that might be a little bit overblown, or perhaps undeserving in, especially in those first, you know, interviews if you're talking about a younger person joining a more seasoned team.
Michael Clements
And, you know, how many problems are you solving when you're by yourself? I think that that's another I don't see a whole lot of problem solving going on. And then this may be a just a thought of mine, but I just don't see how you can have a lot of collaboration and problem solving going on whenever you're all around all over the place. Now, don't get me wrong. I mean, there's schools that that do this kind of stuff and you work on school projects and people work on projects together. That's fun, but when you're talking about daily operations of a business and the challenges of taking care of customers taking care of vendors, that is a lot different than some of these job titles and jobs that we're talking about that are flexible. And so until they can really make problem solving and collaboration come together in real time. When you're sitting there and you're, it's like you're working right next to him. I feel like that that's going to have to be what's going to have to happen to really have what's going to be required in some of these other professions to have the flexibility that millennials are silently fighting for.
Aaron Dunn
Right. Is there anything else you kind of want to take away from this?
Michael Clements
Yeah, you know, one of the another good point that I read in here though, is it said another reason young people are asking for more flexibility is that they're marrying and having children later so they're more invested in their careers by the time they do and have more leverage to ask for what they need. Many are caring for aging parents, too. I think that's really good because you know, whenever we're trying to make a decision as an employer or even as an employee, we have a rational and an emotional way of making a decision. And so whenever you're making that decision to let somebody be more flexible, if you're talking about a 23 year old that's fresh out of school and you know, as, as a manager, as an employer, this person has to learn and they're bugging you about flexibility. That can be a little challenging as an employer and you start asking questions, maybe is this person even committed to us? Are they more interested in themselves? And what I like about this, though, is that this is definitely leverage that I think the that our generation understands, is that okay, I've been in a company 5, 6, 7 years, especially how many startups have happened in the last decade and so many industries that you know, if you have kids, or if you're caring for aging parents or you have real needs for flexibility, I think on an as needed basis, that's something that can always be discussed with an employer. And I really, I really think that that is true because it If someone has children, two or three kids, and they need to be here, or they need to take their kid to school, or they got to pick their, their child up, and I've seen a lot of this, I've seen a lot of this since I've been working and I don't see a problem with being flexible with individuals. But, you know, it's what you have to look at, though. Is this a blanket thing? Is this something we allow everybody to do? And how do you make that work? Because also, I'm not real big on, you know, special treatment. I've never been a big special treatment person. Like I like everybody kind of singing out of the same hymn book per se. And I really like that, but I do see where we're our generation is having leverage though, is they're trying to move up because our parents, you know, they, they may have had kids younger and they got put in a job and they stayed in that job because they had to take care of their children. You know, some of these folks I know, I got buddies that are in their younger 30s that are just now having kids and they're in a position in their companies now where their employer probably doesn't want to lose them to needing to come in at 8:30 instead of eight because they need to take their kid to school. But is that something that we allow everybody in the workforce to? Do we move our hours to 8:30 because one person out of you know, 40 in an office can't be here at eight? And then also do we look at it as special treatment for that person because we let them come in at 8:30? So from an employer's perspective, this can be a very confusing, confusing situation. But I don't think that we're necessarily moving in the wrong direction. I just think that some of the ideas and things that are shared especially in this article and by millennials, and what they think the workplace should be like, or it's not a place, it's a thing or whatever this article was talking about it. It has a lot of bearing but I don't think we're that far into this. I think that we're making progress and I think flexibility is a good thing. But in all our flexibility, none of us are going to work in offices anymore. And we're just all doing our own thing. I don't see that ever being something that's going to take over the workforce.
Aaron Dunn
Yeah. Yeah, I like how you frame that of like, the emotional and kind of the emotional, the emotional, irrational pieces of that, because, you know, and I think that that makes a good point of also seniority. And, you know, I think it comes down to trust at the end of the day of, you know, how much how much trust can we put in this person, if it's somebody who's been in the workforce for five or six years, and yeah, they're going to be probably highly, you know, higher skilled, higher paid higher value person because they know the intricacies and the details of the particular business. So it's really important that we do you know, make some sort of concession or what have you. I could see that. But at the same time, you don't want it to be an abuse of power. So there's always going to be that balance between how that how that works. And I think that each business is going to have to do it and you know, that, that each business is gonna have to do it in their own way. And it's really important to, for a young person to understand that they haven't earned the trust yet. They haven't earned those stripes yet to be to just come in and make demands and say, “Well, hey, this is how it's going to be for me.” Well, if that's how it's going to be for you, it's gonna be for you and not with us, you know? So there's a delicate balance, you have to earn those things. And, you know, it's a process. It’s an ongoing process.
Michael Clements
Well, and, you know, they commented on this in here, and one of the quotes that I really like is it says they may not be on the partner track, but they're not being penalized. I think we got to read into that comment a little bit. Because you know, if you have an employee that’s showing up, we start work at seven, and we go to five. So, you know, let's say someone shows up every day at 6:58 or 6:59. And they're, you know, at five o'clock there that door’s open and they're out. Well, they don't, and they're not coming in on Saturdays, so they don't work a little bit extra to try to get ahead. And then you have an employee that is there at 6:45. Every morning, they're usually out of there at 520, after everything's done for the day, or they know things are taking care of, you know, you have to ask yourself, just from a common sense perspective, who is moving up in the corporate ladder faster in that equation, and I don't think from an employer like I don't have to tell you which one or who's going to move up faster and that… now, their productivity between eight and five definitely matters. But obviously one of these people wants to be there and one of them just wants to do their eight to five and go do something else. And you know, I've been approached by people before they're wanting to move up in the business. And I've had one individual before, tell me, this is my job eight to five, what I do outside of here, you know, I'm all about it, but it's only eight to five for me, I'll tell you, you're never going to run a company I have, you're never going to rise up to be somebody, if you turn it off at five o'clock. I'm not saying we have to eat, sleep and breathe. But I want to tell you there, it takes a certain level to be an executive in a company. It takes a certain level of interest in that business and not in yourself. And it does take putting other people above yourself to do that. And I think a lot of people look at it as the company. Oh, the company, I'm putting the company on my back. I think we need to look at it more, how about the team you're working on? How about the team members that you're working with that you're putting on your back, that your employer has hired you to assist with them, being sure everybody's taken care of. I don't come to work thinking about Michael, I come to work thinking about every single employee in our businesses. That's what I think about on a daily basis. And I don't think everybody should have to have those thought processes but if you want to move up in this in this world and you want to become an executive or someone in a company who people look up to that, that’s what you're going to have to do these days.
Aaron Dunn
Yeah. Well said, Yeah, I think I totally agree. You know, if you want to move up, and you want to succeed, you know, even for yourself, you have to put the mission of the business and the business of others first.
Michael Clements
That's right.
Aaron Dunn
Right. Yeah. Anything else on this article?
Michael Clements
Now, this was good stuff earlier. And I like this. And I definitely think it offers a fresh perspective to employers. It's something that everybody should be aware of is that more flexibility is definitely come into the workforce. But for employers, there's challenges and for employees that want flexibility, there could be consequences.
Aaron Dunn
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it It ties really well into the conversation that you had with Anthony at Great American Trucking Show. He is a recruiter for a carrier, a pretty large carrier in the US. And he talked, you know, he's dealing with, he's talking to young people coming into the industry all the time, every single day, that's his entire job is to get people outside the industry into the industry, and then loving the mission of the company that he represents, essentially. Right. And I think that, you know, this conversation that we're about to play for the remainder of the episode is really, you know, it dovetails right in, you know, really well with this article, because he talks about, you know, how younger people have certain set of demands or expectations in the job and, you know, how they operat…how they, how they navigate through their career. It has, you know, it, I think it really matches up pretty well.
Michael Clements
Yeah, you know, talking with Anthony, at Great American Trucking Show, we had a really good conversation about younger people trying to enter the workforce or enter the driving career. And it was just interesting some of the points he brought up in some of the needs that younger people have, but then also how his company is able to deliver on those needs, and then how sometimes you have to break the news to them and tell them that this isn't exactly how it's going to be. But if you make the sacrifice, it could be worth it. And so he has some really good information in this in this interview, and I think it's wonderful for any millennial or really anybody that's thinking about getting into the trucking industry, or in a truck driving position to hear.
Aaron: Excellent. Well, that's millennial stuff. Time for some trucking stuff. Thanks. So let's,
let's roll.
Michael Clements
So we're here at GATS day two. I'm sitting here hanging out with Anthony Arnett. How you doing today, man?
Anthony
I'm great, man. I'm great. I'm glad to be here.
Michael Clements
Yes, sir. How long you been in the trucking industry?
Anthony
I've been in trucking industry since 2009.
Michael Clements
Okay, so how did you break into the industry?
Anthony
First I started out as a student driver, I knew that it was going to be a sacrifice to get out there and, and grind hard. And luckily the company that I work for their corporate office’s located in the same city of where I'm at, so I was actually able to say, hey, I want to I want to be a recruiter, let me see if I can recruit people, because I knew people that may be looking for a job and I was given that opportunity.
Michael Clements
So you started off as a student driver?
Anthony
Yes.
Michael Clements
And then moved into a driving position?
Anthony
No, so I was in I went, I graduated in like, 2006. I was in college. So once I was done with college, I was like, “Man, what am I going to do?” It was hard to find a job, I didn't have a whole lot of work history. So I said, “Man, let me go ahead and give the trucking industry a try.” So I gave it a try. And by the time I started working with the company for about three months, I said, “Hey, can I can I be a recruiter?” And they said, “What kind of credentials do you have?” I gave him all of my information that I have and they were like, “Hey, let's give you a try.”
Michael Clements
Well, how is the life as a recruiter?
Anthony
As a recruiter, it's, it's it can be stressful for some, especially if you take it personal. Because there's a lot of people that get into the industry with a whole lot of misconceptions. Like some people they feel like they'll go to truck driving school and then be home every day. Right out of truck driving school. No, you got to get some experience in order for you to be able to be home every day. That's more important to a lot of these companies. Like you can't just walk in and say, hey, I want to be home every day and make a million dollars a week. It's not gonna happen.
Michael Clements
So as you're as you're out recruiting, what is mainly the age group that you're trying to attract? Is it a younger generation? Are you trying to attract drivers from other companies? How does that work?
Anthony
I mean, honestly, anybody with the CDL it's not even necessarily a age group that we're looking for. As far as the younger generation, it'd be nice to get them early because if you get them early and show them how good the company is what they'll do Is this stay with the company longer. Some older guys that have a lot of experience there, they're more high maintenance when it comes to what they want and what they need. And not every company can always meet their needs.
Michael Clements
So what are millennials looking for in the trucking industry?
Anthony
Right now? I think Millennials are looking to make a whole lot of money in a short amount of time, and possibly own their own trucks.
Michael Clements
Okay. So you think that's really where Millennials are here. They want to own their own trucks.
Anthony
They want to own their own trucks also, they want to be able to control what's going on with their company, you know, I'm saying so they can actually be home as much as possible and still make pretty good money.
Michael Clements
Do you come across many millennial truck drivers.
Anthony
I'm a student recruiter. So I recruit students. When I first started doing recruiting, it was it was a lot of older guys. And it's like I said, this is about eight years ago. So there's a lot of older guys but now since we we're closer to 2020, we're starting to see a whole lot of younger guys get into it. Because honestly, with college, don't get me wrong, it's fine to get a good degree. It's awesome if you go get a degree, but it's a lot easier for three weeks to go to truck driving school, get to CDL and then start making money off the bat. So we're getting a lot of 21 year olds who just finished either went to college for a few years and decided it wasn't for them, or just finished college and couldn't find a job, things like that.
Michael Clements
So, you know, is there is there a driver shortage?
Anthony
There's not a driver shortage. There's a shortage of qualified drivers.
Michael Clements
I like how you put that. Yes, I would have to agree. There's a lot of people out there with CDLs. Exactly. But are they actually a qualified driver? And I think that's been a common… I've had a few conversations here and that actually has came up a few times.
Anthony
Qualified and safe. Those are two of the main things like any company you go work for…The first responsibility is not to move freight. It's not first responsibility is to stay safe on the road. And when you start talking about 21 year olds, I can remember being 21. Man, I got tickets out to you ha, like, I would get a ticket, ticket, ticket, and nowadays, it's insane. I mean, I remember being young and dumb. So that's that's kind of what it is.
Michael Clements
So as being a recruiter, being a millennial yourself. Are there some hard-headed millennials out there that you come across in your recruiting efforts?
Anthony
I definitely do. I come across a lot of guys that they're definitely hard headed and they feel like they know everything already, and they haven't even they haven't even scraped the surface of what the potential is, as far as in the trucking industry. It's like, hey, I just finished school. I know what I want to do. This is where I want to be. And, and they don't understand that it's not point A to B. It's not it's a B C, D, E f, do you have a whole lot of zigzagging between you and I'm saying, and they don't. They don't understand that part of it, they see a to b because a lot of the companies that they that they speak with, especially recruiters in general, I mean, I'm a recruiter. So I know. But a lot of people, we have a stigma for recruiters that we don't tell the truth all the time. And some people will sell you a dream, some people will sell you a dream. I can't say which companies are out there. But there are some companies out there that sell you a dream. And when you get there, it's not even close to what you thought it was going to be. And when they come talk to me, because I'm probably one of the top 10 companies in the United States. When they come speak with me, the first thing they say is “Cut the bullshit. I want to know exactly what's going to happen.” And when I give them the information I give them they think that we are not telling the truth or not being truthful. However, once they start working with the company, if they choose to… I get calls back all the time “Hey man, I'm gonna buy you lunch if I'm on the road and I'm passing the corporate office, I'm going to come and bring you lunch.” And I mean to hear that, especially from people around my age or even younger, I feel like I've done a good deed. You know, I'm saying, even though it's my job, I still did a good deed because at the end of the day, you're taking somebody off the street that probably could be in doing Lord knows what could probably be struggling financially, to turn in their life all the way around. Now they're being able to make money start a career and the longevity of trucking industry, everything that we're talking about right now, when it comes to the mixer, the mics, your phone, your watch your clothes, everything's been on tractor trailer, everything. a tractor trailer has been on tractor trailer before it was a tractor trailer. So the industry, the longevity of it, the trucking industry is probably I think in the future is going to be the way of a lot of people, of how they generate revenue.
Michael Clements
So how do we motivate other millennials to see the bright side of this industry and to see that it's not just big, ugly, mean trucks running down the interstate. Like, this is an industry full of good people, good young people like yourself, who are trying to make a way and probably going to have a very good career in this industry. How do we, how do we get that message to other millennials?
Anthony
The best way to get that to other millennials, if they'll listen, so now that's the hardest part like you said about the hardheadedness. If they'll listen, the best way for me to explain it is and I can go into a story. About 11 years ago, I just got out of college. I was living in my car. I was literally living in my car. When I went to go pick up my son, we had to stay in a hotel for the weekend because I didn't have a place to live. It was so high, so so expensive and once I figured out “Hey, just because I have this degree, that doesn't mean necessarily I'm going to get a job walking straight out of college”. The trucking industry turned my life around. Like I went from living in my car to living in a house, buying a boat, a beautiful wife. Everything I've ever wanted, I have. You know what I’m saying? Credit, financially, and that's something that's big, is to build credit. Especially for guys our age, because that's, that's more important than anything right no. Credit…business credit or even personal credit. Once you are able to build that, it takes you to another level. But like I said before, 11 years ago, I was in a predicament where I was living in my car and now look at me, I'm able to share knowledge and say, “Hey, man, it took me 11 years to get where I'm at now.” It's not A to B. It's ABCD. It's gonna be a zigzag. I mean, even throughout my process, This is not been always just uphill. It's not always been an uphill battle. Sometimes I go down and sometimes I do go up. But for the most part, think about where you want to be in a future. Plan a goal and fight like hell for it. That's the best way to that's the best way I can give you knowledge.
Michael Clements
And so if there's a millennial out there also who's contemplating becoming a driver or joining up with a company big or small, what advice would you have for them?
Anthony
The best questions I can tell you to ask is, it's not always about the money because you have to get the experience. Figure out which company is best for you, based on your needs, your family needs. I think money is down the line. I said I put it at number four. So those are some of the things that I would think about is what do you have to offer me as far as lifetime so the longevity. How long has the company been around? I'm trying not to get to monetary because monetary… it's on the list, but it's not always number one. But don't put the money first yet. I'll go ahead and go backwards. Don't put the money first yet, get the experience, figure it out and then start progressing as a driver.
Michael Clements
Okay. And so for the millennial out there that's been in the trucking industry and he's having a tough time right now and he's contemplating if he wants to continue driving, what encouragement would you have for him?
Anthony
Man, think about why you want to get out of it. If there's if it's a valid reason, if it's a 100% valid reason, then sometimes you just gotta do what you have to do. However, the longevity of this industry is never going to end. The only way that the trucking industry will halt is if they find out some kind of transporter device or something like that. They come up with some kind of transporter device, the whole trucking industry is done. Other than that, I mean, we probably won't see that for years, will never live to see it, I can guarantee you so stick with it. And if you feel like you want to get out, figure out what's the next best option for you. If it's, hey, I'm a company driver right now. Become a lease purchase owner. Own your truck. You got some companies out there to have two-year lease options. You got some five-year lease options and four. So you got other avenues where you can actually be your own boss and you can be an entrepreneur. Think about it with the entrepreneur mind frame, hey, if I'm running, or whatever company I'm working for, this is my business. I'm going to run like I would run my own business. Because at the end of the day, America is a capitalist country. It's about money. That’s just what our country is. And in order for you to really be successful, you got to have that mind frame. No matter if you're a millennial, no matter if you are baby boomer, you still got to have that type of mind frame.
Michael Clements
Well, I think that's, that's great words of advice. And I really feel like our, our generation, you know, we think of trucking and we think of just the trucks on the road. But I know you being in the industry, you know, there's a lot of other jobs. And I think one thing to an encouraging thing we could offer truck drivers that are younger is hey, there's other jobs in this industry. And now that you've been a driver, you have an edge up, you have a leg up on say me who've I've just been a part of a brokerage and a trucking company, but I've never driven a truck. And so though, I think those individuals also offer some great, great that offers them some great opportunity if they so choose to move into a brokerage or in another area of the trucking industry. So just because you're thinking if you're thinking about exiting the truck, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to exit the industry because you have a lot of knowledge now in your mind.
Anthony
I mean, look, look at where we are. We’re at GATS, man. How many vendors you think are here?
Michael Clements
I think is over 500…
Anthony
500 different vendors. And this is not all trucking companies. I mean, you look at the look at the people who are being innovative and bringing different technology to the table. Like that's really what it's about. There's other jobs out there, whether you're a diesel mechanic, I mean, think about it, a truck isn't gonna run forever, just like a car, somebody has to fix it. The coil comes, they're gonna start getting outdated, there's gonna be other systems to come out. I mean, there's there's a lot of different avenues to go in this industry. A lot of different avenues, like you said, even with the broker’s department as another way to go in and make some money because I mean, they actually get paid pretty good as well. And I mean, at the end of the day, you get to be home every day if you want to go that route. So I was in the same predicament. Like I said, I started out as a student driver and with me starting out as a student driver. I was actually I'm a student driver recruiter now so I'm able to give people knowledge and say, Hey, man, you might not want drive anymore but there's other avenues especially if you work for a company that's based where you live or even if you look for company base where you live because the industry, once you get in it, you don't really get out of it. You know, unless you just have a goal and you're like, hey, I want to do this for two years and get out. Not most people think like that.
Michael Clements
Man, that that's words of wisdom from a millennial, right?
Anthony
I'm a millennial, man. I got an old soul, man.
Michael Clements
Anthony, it was wonderful chatting with you and I wish you all the best. Thank you for coming on.
Anthony
Hey, no doubt, man.
Michael Clements
Yes, sir. Thank you.
Katie: Hello, this is Katie from PDQ America. I wanted to invite you to join our newsletter the Transmitter. If you'd like to receive the latest trucking news, industry insights and other valuable information every week, visit go.pdqamerica.com/podcast