Episode 23 - DOT Compliance & Trucking Consultant Kenneth Nolley Pt. 1
Michael and Aaron kick things off with a casual "pre-game" conversation regarding the NFL AFC/NFC playoffs. They discuss their picks to win and who they hope to see in the Super Bowl.
Then they chat about a recent article from FreightWaves regarding the steps being taken to replace traditional side mirrors with Camera Monitoring Systems (CMS). The elimination of side mirrors could improve safety and is estimated to reduce fuel costs due to better aerodynamics.
Then you'll hear from DOT Compliance and Trucking Consultant Kenneth Nolley. Kenneth is a a former Texas State Trooper that served with the Texas Department of Public Safety and the owner of Priority One Compliance Services, LLC, a transportation consulting firm that advises growing motor carrier clients on a range of operational and compliance-related matters (including, but not limited to: securing various registrations, operating permits and licensing, pre-employment / background screening, insurance-related matters, and continuing education for Motor Carriers, Insurance Agents and CDL/DOT Regulated drivers).
His expertise in this space was guided by my prior employment as a Trooper with the Texas Department of Public Safety where he was trained on laws and the enforcement of the Federal Motor Carrier Rules & Regulations that Motor Carriers, DOT Regulated Drivers must abide by and Crash Investigation.
In addition he have served the private sector in Corporate DOT Management roles for an Oil/Gas Service Company and a HazMat Trucking Company that transported Crude Oil & LPG.
The conversation went so well we had to make it into two parts, so be sure to check back later this week for the rest of this episode.
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Michael Clements:
So you've pulled somebody over and you're sitting in your car, you're about to get out, or SUV. What's going through in the mind of a DOT officer before going and approaching the driver door? Welcome to Trucking for Millennials where we engage with the future of freight happening now. My name is Michael Clements.
Aaron Dunn:
And I'm Aaron Dunn, and we're here to help trucking and logistics professionals stay up-to-date and ahead of the curve as our industry evolves.
Michael Clements:
We're connecting with every step of the supply chain as part of our mission to increase transparency and provide world-class freight solutions.
Aaron Dunn:
Trucking for Millennials. That's the NFL theme song.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah.
Michael Clements:
Trucking for Millennials. [inaudible 00:00:53] Trucking for Millennials.
Aaron Dunn:
[inaudible 00:00:58] Or, are you ready for some trucking?
Michael Clements:
It's a week long part a week long party.
Aaron Dunn:
Trucking for Millennials. What's your favorite NFL theme song? Like I think Hank Williams still is the king of the NFL theme song.
Michael Clements:
Yeah, it's pretty good. Fox's is catchy, but they use it for some other things outside of just NFL. So, yeah. Hank Williams, Monday night football was pretty good.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah. This is the pre-show.
Michael Clements:
The pre-show to the main show. It's like the, what do you call it? Pre-party.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah.
Michael Clements:
What do they call that?
Aaron Dunn:
Pre-game.
Michael Clements:
Pre-game. This is the pre-game.
Aaron Dunn:
Welcome to the pre-game. I like it. So we're going to talk a little bit about football just for fun. And then we're going to get into a trucking article that's geared around like technology and so the new regulations and propose stuff that's coming up, that'll probably hit this decade actually. If it doesn't hit this year, it'll hit the next few years, anyway.
Michael Clements:
It's on its way.
Aaron Dunn:
So what's happening in the world of football? We've talked about football like one other time. We were talking about the Dallas Cowboys and then the Dallas Cowboys just crashed and burned. So we just had a moment of silence on football, but we're coming back around to it.
Michael Clements:
We like football in the office. It's a topic, something we chat about. So we're going to bring that conversation to the podcast.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah.
Michael Clements:
So Aaron, who do we have on tap this weekend?
Aaron Dunn:
Okay, so AFC championship, the Tennessee Titans versus the Kansas City Chiefs. Tennessee Titans so shout out. I'm going to just give a good shout out to our friends in Tennessee. Chattanooga, it's like the freight capitol of the nation. Our friends at Freightways, over there. They're going to be rooting for the Titans. Kansas City though has some hometown rootish.
Michael Clements:
Yeah, I'm holding with my homie.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah.
Michael Clements:
Patrick Mahomes.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah. Patrick Mahomes grew up in Whitehouse, Texas, which is a stone's throw from us here in White Oak. So we have a little bit ... Does that influence your decision?
Michael Clements:
Definitely.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah.
Michael Clements:
I love the old Houston Oilers organization, which Houston would have just kept him. I don't really know what's going on down in Houston now, but. Houston should have built them a stadium. It wouldn't even be a Tennessee Titans. If Bud Adams would have just stayed in Houston and built them a new stadium, we'd still be written for the Oilers. But instead we got to watch the Titans this weekend. It's okay though. Derek Henry's going on [inaudible 00:03:57].
Aaron Dunn:
I love Andy Reid as a coach. I just think he deserves a win. Like a big win. You think they're going to steamroll him? You think Chiefs are going to steamroll him?
Michael Clements:
If it gets to be a shootout, I don't see how the Titans can keep up the game, but I think that's been every team in the playoffs. Really dating back to about week 10 or so. Whenever a Ryan Tannehill took over his quarterback for the Titans, their whole season, it's like it started then and they have just been rolling. They remind me of the Oeight New York giants who just took down team after team in the playoffs, including the Dallas Cowboys and then went on and beat the undefeated Patriots in the Superbowl. This is kind of a similar story. You have a mediocre quarterback, like Eli Manning. But really it's a going to be some good games this weekend. What's the other game we have on tap for this weekend Aaron?
Aaron Dunn:
It is the Packers vs 49ers. We have Nolan in our office, is a huge Packers fan. He hasn't shaved his mustache and a couple of weeks in support and solidarity. So package vs 49ers, I haven't watched one 49ers in a game though. So I have no idea what that team, I'm rooting for Aaron Rodgers. I like the veteran, player organization.
Michael Clements:
So for the gamblers out there, the spread is, minus seven Kansas city. So Kansas City has given up seven points to start this game if you're a betting man, and then the San Francisco 49ers are giving up seven and a half points. So right now, if you're going with the favorites, we're looking at a Chief's vs 49ers Superbowl. Aaron, what are you thinking? And who do you think we're going to see in the Superbowl?
Aaron Dunn:
I'm thinking it's going to be a Chiefs and Packer super bowl.
Michael Clements:
You're thinking Chiefs and Packers?
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah. Because Chiefs have the energy and the Titans they looked their way into the end of this game I think. They just got hot at the right moment, but Chiefs are the type of team that'll just smother them, in my opinion. They've got a lot of momentum and then Packer vs 49ers, like I said, 49ers, I didn't watch him play. So this is a very uninformed opinion, but at the same time, I think that the Packers have a similar type of momentum and hunger for a championship. And I think that it will just make a crazy storybook super bowl if we have chiefs Packers there. That's my hope. But I also think it's pretty possible.
Michael Clements:
Okay. So if you're watching the games, well-
Aaron Dunn:
What about you though? What about you? What's your pick?
Michael Clements:
Yeah, I think I'm going to roll with my homie Patrick Mahomes here. I'm going to take the Chiefs and man, I really hate the 49ers being a Cowboys fan. Growing up in the 90s, I really disliked the Packers too, being a Cowboys fan in the 200s, but if I had my pick, I'm going to root for Nolan. So I'm going to go for the Packers in the super bowl. So Chiefs vs Packers super bowl. That's what I'm going to roll with.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah. Hopefully the old legend and the new, the young gun. What else do we got?
Michael Clements:
So we've got a little article here. We thought would, we're going to read just a few paragraphs to our listeners here. It's a freight waves article, title is Mirrorless trucks gain heavy favor in NHTSA proposal. And so, "An advance notice of proposed rulemaking issued by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in October generated close to 600 comments, most of which were in favor of the plan. The NAPR was issued in response to 2014 petition filed jointly by the Alliance of automobile manufacturers and Tesla to allow camera monitor systems to replace outside rear view mirrors on cars and similar petition filed in 2015 by Daimler trucks North America for heavy trucks. In addition to improve safety, that video cameras provide by reducing or eliminating blind spots. Several comments also pointed out economic benefits allowing truck manufacturers to install CMS in lieu of rear view mirrors would unlock a unique opportunity to make a consequential step forward in the aerodynamic performance of heavy duty tractors.
Michael Clements:
The truck and Engine Manufacturers Association, EMA stated in comments filed in December. EMA claim that an estimated 0.8% to 2% improvement in fuel efficiency from reduced aerodynamic drag caused by eliminating side mirrors could save a trucking company 160 to 400 gallons fuel on a single tractor in one year based on an annual consumption at 20,000 gallons of fuel. Multiplying that improvement over many trucks and year over year operation. The fuel efficiency benefits of CMS would provide enormous financial returns to trucking fleets, not to mention the significant corresponding environmental benefits of reduced criteria pollutant and greenhouse gas emissions." I'm going to read that last paragraph [inaudible 00:09:23] "Multiplying that improvement over many trucks in year over year operation, the fuel efficiency benefits of CMS would provide enormous financial returns to trucking fleets, not to mention the significant corresponding environmental benefits."
Michael Clements:
So they're putting cameras, they're replacing side mirrors with cameras and monitors inside the door panel. If you look at the article and we'll put it in the show notes, but imagine your windshield, what is it, the A pillar of your truck where the windshield and the driver's side window meet that A pillar. They'd put a monitor right there and then on the A pillar on the other side.
Aaron Dunn:
So the monitor is inside the truck.
Michael Clements:
Monitor is on the inside of the truck and you just have these cam, and the camera is on the outside. Imagine a truck with no side mirrors and just little tiny cameras that you could probably barely see on the side of the truck. And that's what they're wanting to do. And apparently everybody's for it.
Aaron Dunn:
I don't think it's a bad idea.
Michael Clements:
It just seems so new and unnatural almost. So you think it's a good idea?
Aaron Dunn:
I do think I like it. One thing that's a little odd, I have driven a vehicle that had a rear view mirror that was a video and it was a little weird. It was a little odd driving. One thing I did not like about it is, the more you move your head, it doesn't matter, the picture's not going to change. That's something like in whenever we're driving, you can move your head a little bit and you maybe can see different angles around your vehicle or so forth. So that is a little bit of the versatility you lose. But I really don't know how versatile a trucking mirror is to begin with. And this actually may give them a lot more, it may increase what they're able to see.
Michael Clements:
Yeah. The amount of visibility might increase. I have a similar experience. My wife's car has a side camera. So when you're turning right, or if you're changing lanes and you have the right turn signal on, the center console, it shows a camera feed, a video feed of what's happening on the right side of your car. And it doesn't have it on the left. When you turn left, you still have to check the regular mirror, but then it happens on the right. So you see a video feed. It's disorienting especially when you're not used to it, but you slowly begin to trust it. Slowly it becomes a little bit easier because you don't have to adjust your eyes as much to that far mirror. You're closer in proximity so it's a quicker reference point.
Michael Clements:
That little bit of distance from the center console to the passenger side front mirror, that's time that you're spending trying to refocus and assess if it's safe to pass or whatever, if you have enough clearance and that kind of thing. But who knows. Apparently drivers ... the article makes it seem as if people are pretty supportive of it though.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah. I would think anything that can increase visibility for the truck driver, they're going to appreciate and want that in the truck.
Michael Clements:
It'll be interesting. It'll be interesting.
Aaron Dunn:
What I'm really interested in is the fuel savings. I think not having mirrors, it's great that they've already done a study to show and that just goes to show you too just a 2% decrease can save that much money for a fleet over the course of a year.
Michael Clements:
Yeah, that's pretty amazing. It seems like a such a simple and silly thing to replace that it would create that much return. When you have a safety component and financial component, safety's important but companies also say, "Hey, finances are really important."
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah, finances are really important.
Michael Clements:
This is a glimpse of the future of trucking in a lot of ways.
Aaron Dunn:
You're probably going to eventually have something more that's like an airplane cockpit.
Michael Clements:
Yeah.
Aaron Dunn:
Like more of a control center than just a steering wheel and gas pedal, brake pedal, clutch. Your typical trucking inside of a semi truck, what it's looked like in up to this point yet. I think you're starting to see the early changes and really over the next decade, the inside of the cabin will probably be transformed a whole lot. And then really the 2030 to 2040, in some ways it may be unrecognizable from what we grew up looking at a truck.
Michael Clements:
For sure. Airplanes don't have rear view mirrors. There's no mirrors on the plane.
Aaron Dunn:
So, I had a really good time this week talking with Kenneth Nali, of Priority One Compliance. Me and him had a really good conversation about safety, compliance and a little background on Kevin. He is an ex DOT officer, went into oil field operations, worked in the safety and compliance side for the trucking side of an oil and gas company. And then eventually transferred himself into a more of a consulting role for businesses. Now he does safety, compliance and insurance. So had a really good conversation with Kevin that I think our listeners they're going to get a plethora of information out of. [inaudible 00:15:23]
Aaron Dunn:
Welcome to another episode of Trucking for Millennials. I'm here today with Kenneth Nali. How are you doing today, Kenneth?
Kenneth Nali:
I'm doing good. Thank you.
Aaron Dunn:
Kenneth comes from Longview, Texas. He's with Priority One Compliance, a DOT consultant and insurance business that assist trucking companies and new entrance, with being sure everything's in order, what they're doing and also current existing trucking companies with their DOT compliance insurance and things. So, Kenneth is here today. His background started in the DOT side seven years, in DOD, correct?
Kenneth Nali:
Yes. I was with the Department of Public Safety, here in Texas for almost seven.
Aaron Dunn:
Okay. So Kenneth was with the DOT, transitioned to the oil field and then eventually transitioned to the consulting business.
Kenneth Nali:
That is correct.
Aaron Dunn:
So we have a great guest today. I think our listeners are going to get some wonderful knowledge today. So very excited about this.
Kenneth Nali:
Me too.
Aaron Dunn:
So Kenneth just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us how your background began as a DOT officer.
Kenneth Nali:
Yeah, you bet. I actually was a Longview police officer right before going to work for the Texas Department of Public Safety. Being a trooper was one of the things that, I had my goal set on. That was one thing I wanted to do is, is become a trooper. My granddad's retired, how we have trolled me as well. And, I was lucky enough, fortunate enough, to be accepted to the Academy, attended the Academy in Austin, Texas, a 26 week program, right out of the Academy got stationed in a community just South of the Dallas-Fort Worth area, called walks a Hetchy. We had a 35E and a 45 that ran through, Ellis County and I was fortunate enough while I was there to be able to attend the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration School, the Texas Department of Public Safety put on for their troopers and gained a lot of insight into DOT roadside inspections.
Aaron Dunn:
So you're time began with the DOT, at that point in time you obviously probably didn't know it was going to lead to what you're doing now. I think for truck drivers sometime trying to understand all this at a very route when you're starting out is really hard. How is it for a DOT officer trying to understand the laws and what happens and how all this works?
Kenneth Nali:
Well, I can tell you the Department of Public Safety had a good, field training program. Of course, you're usually not too far away from anyone else, that you just phone call away when you have a question that you can call in. Training is really good. It's some of the best throughout the US. If you look at the out of service criteria, the current one, there's a Texas trooper on the front of it. We are part of the elite when it comes to the enforcement side of things, well-respected here in Texas and throughout the rest of the US. As far as the training aspects of it, second to none, hands on experience, the people who put on the training for the Texas Department of Public Safety, they attend stuff at the national level and bring it back to the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Kenneth Nali:
And, we're able to trickle that stuff down throughout the rest of the department. Lots of people who have lots of years of experience, way more than what I had when I left, they've stuck with it. They've studied this stuff. They understand and I've seen many changes over the years. And, it is a lot. And that's the cool thing, but also the bad thing about it, is just when you think you may have a good handle on it, something changes and it's your job to make sure that you're abreast of it. And not only for the enforcement side of it, but it was not just for enforcement purposes. Our job was out there to educate as well. And, I cannot tell you the number of times, we go to lunch or whatever and someone would stop by your table and greet people, ask questions and know different in the truck community.
Kenneth Nali:
Whenever you stopped by the truck stop or someone sees you in uniform and they have a question and come visit with you about, I remember when CSA 2010 came out, that was a big thing at the time. And, be honest with you. I didn't know near the stuff about it at the time and what I do now and the impacts and understand the aha moments years afterwards and understanding the true impact of it had everybody on their toes, for a while just because they didn't know what to be expected was. It was just a thing that was feared. And, as time has gone along and seeing, understanding roadside inspections, understanding the point value and how that translates for the motor carrier, how it impacts their operations, their CSA scores as is one of many things, but it's probably one of the most important things whenever I've seen on the insurance side, where they go in and they look at your roadside inspections, it's very important.
Kenneth Nali:
You may get away with an inspection that has several warnings on there and think that, "Okay, I didn't get a ticket. I don't have to pay this this fine." But ultimately those violations still count towards the motor carrier just as if it were a ticket. And, that information is scrutinized whenever your insurance comes up for renewal. If you're within your first year, it's going to be used during the new intern audit. They're going to ask you about those violations that you received during roadside inspections. What have you done to correct those, and stuff of that nature.
Aaron Dunn:
So going back to your time as a DOT officer, we see a truck driving down the road. What are you looking for when a truck is just driving down interstate?
Kenneth Nali:
I'll give you some tips too, just some things that I've picked up, really and truly just looking at the truck in general. What's the condition of it? Is it something that looks like is just pulled out of the junkyard or is it something that looks to be part of a pretty good fleet and different drivers have different characteristics, as far as the cleanliness of their truck. A lot of people, they can jazz them up with Chrome and they look really sharp. They can put more lots on on the truck then what a Christmas tree has, all going down it and really do a good job at making it look good. It looks sharp. It gains your attention going down there. But there's also, some of the guys who give it a bad name or don't take care of their stuff and they've got the front bumper almost hanging off. Load is not properly secured, it's just evident. It's screaming, "Stop me."
Kenneth Nali:
There's going to be more violations, just stop and take a look. Some of the common stuff, lights being out, that's one of the things, but, believe it or not, sometimes it's no fault of the driver. The driver is not done anything wrong. There's no violations. It is the trucks just being stopped for an inspection just to ensure that everything is as good as it seems, going down the road.
Kenneth Nali:
And, I know it can be hectic or aggravating sometimes for the driver, especially if they have good equipment. Maybe they were just stopped a few days earlier and DOT inspected and now this is just going to delay them anymore. But it's not always negative. It can be positive too, because if everything's good, you could get the CVSA decal, which ultimately if you're coming into a way station and they see that, they may wave you on through. They're not going to even worry about doing an inspection. So you may be in a bigger hurry that day. And because that trooper stopped and respected your stuff, everything turned out good. And it actually worked to your benefit.
Aaron Dunn:
So you've pulled somebody over and you're sitting in your car, you're about to get out or SUV. What's going through in the mind of a DOT officer before going and approaching the driver door.
Kenneth Nali:
One of the things that went through my mind a lot was the other traffic. Are we in a safe location? I've been on the side of 35, and wearing my hat and a car, big truck go by and blow my hat off my head and I'm chasing my hat down the interstate, like frosty the snowman. Making sure that I'm not putting myself in any further danger as far as the other traffic on the road, if it's something that is unsafe, maybe I can approach the driver and we can move to a better location. That's generally the first thing that is crossing my mind though, is just getting up, making sure that I'm in a good safe location. I can get out and make contact with the driver for my safety as well as theirs and other people that they can see us. And, we're not just over heel where someone's going to freak out and over-correct just trying to avoid us.
Aaron Dunn:
What advice would you have for drivers when they're getting pulled over? Is there a certain spot they should be looking for? Just anywhere on interstate, above a hill, below a hill. Do you have any advice on that?
Kenneth Nali:
Yeah, just over a hill or just around the curves typically not the best place. Turn on your hazard lights, find a good spot preferably one that's not just over a hill or around a curve. If there's a place, if you're on the interstate to even start to exit, just to get off of there. That's great. That helps minimize some of the traffic hazard that's out there.
Aaron Dunn:
Wonderful. So, you've got somebody pulled over. These things are going through your mind, you get out of the car, you're walking up to the driver door. What are some of the things you're noticing as you're walking up and then your first impression.
Kenneth Nali:
I'd use, typically whenever I was walking the road I would try to approach from the passenger side, that way I can put myself a little bit safer and I'm not right next to the highway, roadway and I can go up there. A lot of times drivers already gotten their stuff and they're already out there. They're waiting for you. If they're pretty quick on it, if not, I know it takes a good couple seconds to shut it all down and set the brake and start finding their credentials and paperwork and stuff because they know that we're going to ask for it.
Kenneth Nali:
Sometimes I would actually stand on the passenger side of the truck and just communicate with the driver from that angle. And sometimes we didn't even need to go any farther. We were not going to be conducting inspection or nothing on the way up to the truck, nothing led me to believe there's a good reason to do an inspection or anything. It was just a normal traffic stop. Maybe I noticed a light out, something of that nature and it's going to be a quick warning, and get them back on their way if everything else checks out okay.
Aaron Dunn:
In your mind, is it best for the driver to stay in the seat and wait for you to get there? Is it best to get their bonder, everything in order and get out of the vehicle, have all their documentation ready, which is better?
Kenneth Nali:
Even dealing with four runners, even dealing with just the regular passenger car, I think people have different preferences. Typically we like to have them stay in the truck and then we'll direct what we want to from then on.
Aaron Dunn:
So what were some of the most common things you're looking for if you are doing an inspection?
Kenneth Nali:
Lights, lights they're are a big one, tires they're easy, load securement, if it's a flatbed, just looking at the general stuff, just the general condition of it. Believe it or not, I don't know why my attention is drawn to things that I've subconsciously just looked for on a lot of different trucks. And when something's not right, it tends to stand out a little bit more than whenever it does, if that makes any sense. And I think that if you were to go and start performing that job, you would develop stuff that you do subconsciously and check and I think you would probably agree that, something stands out whenever it's not correct. I don't know why.
Aaron Dunn:
What gives an officer the idea of whether to do a level one through four inspection? How do y'all make that decision?
Kenneth Nali:
Well, there is a program called ISS. I don't know if some people refer to is the ISS score. Some of the insurance, underwriters they have access to a system that gives them the ISS score. And we had actually the application installed on our computers at the time and it was, Inspection Selection System is actually what it stood for, where you could essentially tap in a DOT number and I think it had the icon of a traffic signal.
Kenneth Nali:
It would have a red, yellow or green. A green obviously if you were just typing it in there, just to see a general profile and it lit up green. Well that typically said that, for the most part that carrier's good. Past inspections have not shown anything that's been anything critical, for the most part, whenever inspections are conducted on that carrier of their vehicles, everything has turned out pretty good. And it doesn't mean that the one that you're stopping is not going to be a clean or that it's going to have problems. It's just basically going on the history of it.
Kenneth Nali:
Yellow is going to be an optional, use your discretion. And red is either, "Okay, this guy or this motor carrier has had numerous inspections. History has shown that they do not farewell during the inspections that critical violations are discovered." Or it could be that this is a newer motor carrier and we would welcome any information and we would welcome you to do an inspection on it because any information you can provide would be beneficial to us just because we don't have enough inspection history to make a determination whether this is a good motor carrier or not based on inspections.
Aaron Dunn:
Do driver appearance, does it ever impact, maybe what they're wearing or how clean they look if-
Kenneth Nali:
Not typically to me. You got to give these guys a break. Some of them live in their truck. Some of them, they're out on the road for weeks at a time. They're doing their reset and their time off is in the truck stop or some other place. It's not home kicked back on the couch where they have access to everything that we take for granted. So no, that wasn't anything negative. Nothing that really said, "Okay, I need to do inspection on this guy because his stuff isn't necessarily clean." But you do bring up a good point. And I was going to say this a while ago when we were talking about trucks, if I see a clean truck going down the road, there's a good chance that, I may not even mess with him. If I'm looking for violations just because clean trucks, we equivalate that to, okay everything's going to be okay.
Kenneth Nali:
Everything's going be good versus the dirty trucks or something of that nature. And it that's just the rule of thumb and it has been in, it doesn't necessarily mean that clean trucks can be violation free. If anything, if they have violations, we'll they've cleaned it up so you can see them even better. Sometimes some of the mud or a dirty truck they may have actually have obscure stuff that you would be checking for. And you may miss it, just because of dirt or whatever caked up on it.
Aaron Dunn:
Yeah. I think my favorites are the trucks rolling down the road with, look like the mailbox stickers and they're all crooked on the truck with the DOT number. I think that's my favorites.
Kenneth Nali:
I have seen that as well. And a lot of people, next time you're going down the interstate challenge you to see the piece of cardboard box taped up on the side of the truck. That's in line with what you're talking about. And believe it or not, some people are like, "Oh yeah, they can't do that." No, it is permissible. And there are certain reasons why that may be in that fashion, that may have that carrier's credentials on the cardboard box taped up on the side of the truck.
Aaron Dunn:
So when you were making the transition from the compliance side to the operation side, what ended up being one of the biggest shocks to you once you made it to the compliance side or to the operations?
Kenneth Nali:
Well, I was in a very good position, I got to do a lot of the onboarding. I got to do a lot of the, if the district manager said, "Hey, we want to hire this guy." I got to be one of the first people they got to interact with and of course I got bombarded with a lot of questions about the company, but it gave me a chance to see where their knowledge was, in regard to the Federal Motor Carrier Rules and Regulations, hours of service, that was a huge one. Typically they understand that they're going to fill out an application. They understand a lot of the paperwork and they just signed her name to it. But I made it a point to really try to educate and go over. I wanted to know where are they? And I wanted to be able to correct anything that they may have gotten wrong.
Kenneth Nali:
Different motor carriers sometimes can operate under different rules depending on their situation. If we had an over the road guy, coming and he was going to be going ... he heard there was good money in the oil field and he wanted to join the frack crew and district manager was on board on hiring him. Well, we had to have a detailed discussion about hours of service because it's not the same set of rules and we get a lot better rules that we can apply and being able to fix that on them. Maybe that they worked for another service company in the area that did or did not get to take advantage of certain exemptions that we were going to take advantage of in our company.
Kenneth Nali:
So it was a very, important conversation, if you will, to have with each driver to make sure that they understood the rules and regulations. Because ultimately our company's reputation, it depends on them abiding by those and to speak up whenever they see something that's not correct or, something that maybe they were taught differently, it opens up the chance to be able to converse about it and understand, "We don't have to do that that way because of X, Y, and Z." So it's an education standpoint. I've gotten to ride with a lot of good drivers, over the years, on the compliance in the oil and gas sector. Very impressive people out there that are in the driver's seat. And then of course I've also ridden with some that really I couldn't wait to get back to the yard just because we need to get out of the truck and we needed to have a conversation with the district manager and really consider or reconsider whether we wanted to hire this individual.
Aaron Dunn:
So for aspiring drivers or someone may be going in for their first or second driving job, what advice would you give them? If they're trying to land this trucking job, they know it's going to be good, but they're young, maybe they don't have the experience. What is something that maybe they can do to set themselves ahead?
Kenneth Nali:
Definitely first and foremost, keep a good driving record. There's a lot of people out there whether it just be driving for a company just to buy the time, till they can get into a better situation. It may be for a local guy that has a logging company, they're in between jobs and they just take it just to make ends meet. And I understand that. But, understand also, if he gets stopped and there's ultimately a lot of violations, it may not have been within the driver's control. He's just simply there trying to make a living. Unfortunately, during that inspection, it's going to go on his PSV record. And that's one thing that I encourage motor carriers to, they don't have to run on, but I encourage every motor carrier run PSPS because that's going to give you a good history, if this gentleman or lady has been stopped before and, what type of violations were found during the inspections.
Kenneth Nali:
Is it something that the driver could have controlled? Is it something that they could have remedy before the inspection occurred? Because you're fixing, putting them in your truck and while you may do a good job to maintain your equipment, there is a certain trust level that you have to ensure that the driver's going to be doing their part as well. So keeping a good driving record, trying to, if you get any inspections, making sure that they're clean. That's good. That's very good. That's probably my top one right there, because that can be a quick disqualifier. Get as many endorsements as you can, get your HAZMAT endorsement.
Kenneth Nali:
You may not need it for the current role that you're in now, but there may be a position open up at a place that you're ready to go to the next level and you've already got your HAZMAT on your license, or your tanker endorsement, or your doubles and triples. You may be ready to take that next step and there may just be a short notice that you have to put in for this job that requires those endorsements. So those two things would probably be my best recommendations.
Aaron Dunn:
And as you're aware, whenever companies are trying to hire drivers, most of the time it's like, "We got to get this guy in. We got to get this guy in." Or, you're already short on drivers. You need to get them in a driver's seat, but that can't overtake safety. And so how do companies during new hire orientation, because there may be a hiring manager or recruiter that saying, "We've got to get this guy on a truck. They sound great." But what have you seen, how you can really filter through the good and the bad drivers early on in orientation. What should companies be looking for during that time?
Kenneth Nali:
You bring up a situation which you nailed it. A lot of the guys, a lot of motor carriers, they're anxious to get people in the seats because if the wheels aren't rolling then they're not making any money. And I generally stop right there. If I'm able to get in front of a CEO or the president of a company and try to just put the time out on that and give them a situation or scenario to let them understand that this driver, if you're in a rush to just put a driver in there, you may be costing yourself more than what you would if that truck was just sitting vacant on the backside of the lot. You do need to take your time. If you're in that big of a rush, I don't know that I can really give you any good information that's going to help your situation because you're really just hoping that you get a good driver in there. Conducting PSP screens, making sure on every driver that you hire or that you're going to hire, that you do that.
Kenneth Nali:
One good thing too is someone can't just come up, today and say, "Okay, I want a job and you put them in a truck." They have to go, you've got to do your pre-employment DOT drug screen, you've got to get the results back before you can actually put them in truck and release them on that. So that does delay it just a little bit. And I've waited days, I've waited one day, all the way up to a couple of weeks to get some results. And there's been different scenarios involved in each of those, but sometimes it's not as quick as just finding a driver, a good driver. You've got to go through that process and make sure that you're able to get the results back in a timely manner as well. Road test, road test, road test, road test, making sure just because the guy has a driver's license and Texas is a state that requires, in order for you to get that CDL, makes you do a road test. Don't just take it for granted.
Kenneth Nali:
Actually go out there and have someone competent, that's going to give this road test and doesn't need to just be jumping in the truck. Let's make a block with it. Let's put a few miles on the road. Let's create a route, that's going to require left and right turns both, may be going across railroad tracks to a really evaluate the driver. I do not think you're doing your company a favor. skipping out on that part of the process in an effort to save time.
Aaron Dunn:
What kind of indicators early on can tell a manager or dispatcher that this is a good or this is not a good driver?
Kenneth Nali:
Well, I keep referring back to PSP. That can be a good indicator, but really and truly, and I tell motor carriers this all the time, just because someone doesn't have any history on the PSP doesn't mean that they've been doing everything right. Just because a motor carrier doesn't have any inspections on their safer record doesn't mean that they're necessarily a safe motor carrier. It just means that they have not been stopped and inspected, and any violations had been discovered. I guess it would lean more towards if there is a record of inspections and they don't have hardly any violations that can be a good indicator. If it is a driver who has several inspections and there's a lot of violations on there, that can also be a good indicator as well.
Kenneth Nali:
But that's just one of many tools that we have. Go back and look at their driving record. Also the road test, I would definitely put that in my hiring process to make sure that we're doing an adequate road test and evaluate it and make sure you evaluate it every year to make sure that it's still meeting the needs of what you think your drivers should be doing. During the road test, is going over pre-trip inspection stuff. A lot of people discount the pre-trip inspection. Say, "I did that to get my license. I don't have to do that." Or. "Yeah, I'm just going to let the truck warm up, build some air, as long as it doesn't shut down then I'm good to go." Being able to have a driver that takes care of your equipment, that's going to find stuff and get it fixed before it causes other major problems, they're invaluable.
Kenneth Nali:
They're going to save you money. If they're are good drivers as well, if they're able to perform well on the road, especially when someone's watching them, double clutch in using the appropriate signals and everything on their movements, your motor carrier's livelihood is based on your drivers. If they're not maintaining the equipment, if they're not checking the oil, if they're not making sure that the unit is greased or that there's oiling hubs, you could be in a bind quick.
Aaron Dunn:
So that does lead me to the question, which is more important than pre or post trip inspection?
Kenneth Nali:
Pre-trip inspection. In my opinion, pre-trip inspection is probably the most important. Post-trip inspection obviously occurs after the trip. The driver is required to make a report on that, on their driver vehicle inspection report to check everything, make sure it's in good working condition, but if that truck's parked on the yard, who's to say that some knuckleheads didn't come in there and vandalize stuff overnight. The next driver cannot just rely on the previous driver's inspection report to say that, "Okay, everything is good."
Kenneth Nali:
He needs to verify it's in good safe working conditions as well and they're both important. In my opinion, the pre-trip is probably more important because you are at the point where you're fixing to put that truck on the road. At least if you discover a violation after you've already stopped. Well, the hazard is gone. Any event that you discovered you have a bad tire or something, it's important to do a post trip as well, don't misunderstand me. Because if the truck's going to be at the yard, that's a good time to get that truck repaired while it's there at the yard before the next driver comes on or before you returned back to the truck to go out on your next run.
Aaron Dunn:
If the truck does say have a violation, that maybe the driver discovered in a pre-trip and let's say they're three hours away, they get pulled over. Is that something they should disclose to the DOT officer? Is that something that you keep in your back pocket and waiting to see if you're getting an inspection before you bring it up?
Kenneth Nali:
Well, I'm typically not wanting to just bring it up and say, "Okay, yeah. By the way, all this stuff's wrong too." Because, if it can be fixed, your best place to fix is at the yard, at the truck stop, before you start the day. It's not on the road. Typically, if you look on your driver vehicle inspection report, if you put a violation, if you mark a violation or something, if you write something up, it typically ask, is this vehicle still safe to drive or is it unsafe? Obviously if the answer is unsafe, then no, we don't want to drive that at all and as far as disclosing that, I hope that it's found during the inspection, it's really not going to have any bearing on it. And in my opinion, whether the driver knew or didn't know or didn't tell you.
Katie:
Hello, this is Katie from PDQ America. I wanted to invite you to join our newsletter, The Transmitter. If you'd like to receive the latest trucking news, industry insights and other valuable information every week, visit go.pdqamerica.com/podcast.