We start this episode announcing the first ever PDQ America Truck of the Year! 

If you're interested in participating and think that your truck has what it takes, follow us on social media @PDQAmerica. Each week we feature pictures of loaded trucks from around the country. Each weekly winner is entered into a monthly competition that is voted on by members of our community. Truck of the Month winners are entered into Truck of the Year! 

After that you'll hear Michael and Aaron's conversation with Craig Bliss. Craig is the creator of the largest Facebook group for Freight Brokers and one of the largest for truck drivers called Freight Brokers and Truck Drivers that boasts almost 17,000 members.

He also uploads his weekly Make More Money Mondays live streams to his own podcast, Talk Freight and is now featuring members of his group.

If that wasn't it, he also started Freightbrand.com, which helps small freight brokers and trucking companies build a recognizable brand online. 

In this conversation we chat about:

• How he got into trucking and logistics

• Freight Brokers and Truck Drivers Facebook Group

• Social Media and it's role in our industry

• What happened in 2019

• How to make more money in 2020

• and more!

Never miss an episode by subscribing to the Trucking for Millennials podcast on these platforms:

Aaron Dunn:
Craig. I'm going to ask you direct. I want to know how can freight brokers and truck drivers make more money in 2020 because-

Craig:
I love it.

Michael Clements:
Welcome to Trucking for Millennials where we engage with the future of freight happening now. My name is Michael Clements.

Aaron Dunn:
I'm Aaron Dunn and we're here to help trucking and logistics professionals stay up to date and ahead of the curve as our industry evolves.

Michael Clements:
We're connecting with every step of the supply chain as part of our mission to increase transparency and provide a world-class freight solutions.

Michael Clements:
I'm having too much with this.

Aaron Dunn:
Too much fun. Tracking for millennials.

Michael Clements:
Let's do this.

Aaron Dunn:
Next episode or well, I mean this episode, is the one you're listening to today. This is the episode, so this is the pre show before the main event of the show. Main event of the show, you probably saw when you clicked on the podcast. Craig Bliss is our guest. We just had a great conversation with him.

Michael Clements:
Awesome conversation. Smart cat, knows what's going on in the industry. You're definitely going to want to listen to this.

Aaron Dunn:
Yeah, for sure. But first we have a very, very, very special announcement.

Michael Clements:
Drum roll please.

Aaron Dunn:
Yes. Drum roll.

Michael Clements:
Our 2019 PDQ America truck of the year award winner is going to Nathan Tedrow with Wa stoneking out of Freeport, Pennsylvania. Congratulations, Nathan. You just won $500 for a charity of your choice. Thank you for all that entered and the hundreds that voted for Nathan.

Aaron Dunn:
Congratulations, Nathan. Applause, fanfare, explosions.

Michael Clements:
My man Nathan just won $500 for a charity of his choice. Congratulations man. And good looking rig.

Aaron Dunn:
It is a good looking rig. I'll tell you. People love cattle haulers, like love-

Michael Clements:
We love beef, we love burgers. We love the possible burger.

Aaron Dunn:
Show of the impossible. Give me the possible burger, I like that. So congratulations Nathan, you are the very first PDQ America truck of the year winner. We'll be reaching out to you soon. That covers that. If this is your first time listening to the show, I hope you decide to follow the PDQ America Instagram and Facebook accounts. You can participate in the weekly, monthly, yearly truck of the whatever it is. You're now going to hear a conversation Michael and myself and with Craig Bliss of Freight Brokers and Truck Drivers Facebook group, also freightbrand.com and all the other things that he does. So you'll learn plenty about him and we'll see you next time.

Aaron Dunn:
Thank you for listening to trucking for millennials. My name's Aaron joined here as always, Mr. Michael Clements Jr.

Michael Clements:
Hello.

Aaron Dunn:
We have a very special guest today. It is Craig Bliss.

Craig:
Hey, what's going on everybody?

Aaron Dunn:
So you might recognize him. He's the creator of the largest Facebook group for freight brokers and one of the largest for truck drivers called descriptively, Freight Brokers and Truck Drivers. Type that in and you will find 16,928 people that you can connect with in the trucking industry. It was created in 2016.

Aaron Dunn:
You've grown this quite fast I would say, active collaborator with truckstop.com lots of people's favorite load board and he also podcasts called Talk Freight has weekly episodes, every Monday, he's got an episode called Make More Money Mondays, which we'll talk about. And also he talks to members of the group throughout the week as well. So always come in with some valuable content. Really been a treat to watch Craig do his thing in freight as I come into the industry and then we got to connect at GATS when Michael and I and the rest of the PDQ team were there and in Dallas. Got to connect there. So welcome to the show Craig.

Craig:
Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that warm welcome there. I mean I almost felt like I was listening to a biography about my free career there on social media, so I definitely appreciate looking into it. Everything you said is exactly correct. As you said, I do have the group Freight and Truck Drivers, I looked it up, before i come here I knew that your company is also a member of that group, so I appreciate that as well. I hope you guys stay in touch with all things logistics for the members there. So definitely appreciate that.

Aaron Dunn:
Yeah, it's one of the better groups out there I would say, there's quite a few different freight groups that you've got. You've built a good community. Also you've got freightbrand.com that's another thing that you do-

Craig:
I do.

Aaron Dunn:
That's like a design agency, marketing-

Craig:
Yeah, sort of. It's mainly just say logistics, marketing and web design company here in Scottsdale, Arizona. I started that about a year and a half now ago. We started just doing websites and now we kind of do a little bit more helping drivers with their marketing plans on social medias. My website is actually down cause we're actually doing a revamp, but that's one of the big things we do is help revamp the little guys' company image to help them look bigger in this industry of the bigger guys and megas out there.

Aaron Dunn:
Excellent. Just so people can get a little bit more insight just in case they don't know who you are, first time hearing your name and what's your about, how did you get into trucking and freight and get into the position you're in now?

Craig:
Yeah, great question. I actually was lucky, I started about 10 years ago. I just moved to Chicago, fresh out of basic, I was 18 years old. I was working at a subway deli when I was making a sandwich for a regular customer who just so happened to be a job recruiter, but now only that a logistics recruiter. She came in asked if I wanted an interview at logistics job, at the time I had no idea what logistics was, I thought FedEx or UPs. But as it turned out, it was for a mega brokerage. So within a week or two of that conversation, I was working as a track and tracer at what is now a mega brokerage. And so that's why I started learning the brokerage side if you will. After a couple of years, jumped right into the carrier side, a carrier friend that I met in the industry.

Craig:
Here's a man in Chicago with a small fleet. He kind of took me under his wing, taught me about the carrier side of the industry. What I didn't know at the time that I now know now, I was actually providing dispatch services for him because he taught me how to find... He had nine trucks plus his or 10, so he taught me how to find loads for him, his brother has friends and all that. And again, I was still fresh, I didn't know anything about the industry at this time. Did that for a few years and I credit that experience to learning the carrier side. From there, went to the shipper, actually a couple shippers in a few year, setting up carriers, doing RFQs, doing freight management for different warehousing and plants, mainly on the Southeast, but also the Midwest.

Craig:
But after that I went right back to the carrier. He took me under his wing because he actually passed away. And so after a few years went back help figure out the company from there, they ultimately closed the doors. But when they closed the doors, I kind of became a freelance logistic startup consultant helping, what I say, helping the little guy kind of survive in this industry. In the beginning was just helping him with packets, creating packets stuff like that, startup advice and just providing tips, tricks and resources. And within the mix of this story I created my freight brokers group, Freight Brokers and Truck Drivers and it was much smaller at this time. It was just maybe less than a thousand people and it was just a very tight knit community of just trading tips, tricks, resources.

Craig:
But as you could see within three years we've been around now since that group had been created, it is much larger with much bigger agenda. I have the, as you mentioned, the Make More Money Monday show that I do within my Facebook group that's also a podcast, and we just started actually this month, two new shows of members helping members video and that's just we're pulling members out of our group to speak to other members of our group who are not as experienced, who doesn't have maybe the knowledge or the expertise that they do. So that's been a lot of fun. We just ended our second one yesterday, the next one is Tuesday after the Make More Money Monday.

Craig:
But that's essentially what I do, I kind of fell in logistics, I had no idea what it was, so I fell into it. But once I had fell into it, I just got immersed with just learning. One thing that I pride myself as being young in this industry because I was very lucky to been around the block, if you will, on all sides of the industry that take a little bit from each place. And you know, being only 28, I've definitely learned a lot in 10 short years.

Aaron Dunn:
I'm glad you brought up the age there because being that this is trucking for millennials, we're all around the same age, the upper 20s lower 30s. I was thinking about it on my way over here to set up the recording and all that. I mean, you're a quintessential, you're a card carrying member of both subject matters that we cover here and a perfect example of a young person making an impact. That's awesome.

Aaron Dunn:
Tell us a little bit more about the Facebook group. Like what could somebody expect or are there any success stories that you could share? Some cool stuff that's happened in the group over the past three years?

Speaker 4:
Yeah, in the group as I said, it's mainly like a resource group, but every day you have your daily load posting brokers,, post loads carriers or owner operators. They post the location or where they may be to hope to find shipments there. But also there's a lot of people providing help. I put in a lot of templates for detention, how to get guaranteed detention pay or at least increase your odds, what to do in these types of situations, little cheat sheets just to help people out. So that's what it's mainly for. But a lot of success of the group, it's really the members. And I'll tell you why, it's because with such a large following, soo many people on one professional platform cause that is a difference. This group is a professional platform for logistics professionals.

Speaker 4:
When a member has an issue they post it and more times than not the issue gets resolved. And it can be simple issues with, miscommunication where the driver and a broker and may be things getting lost in the source, if you will, with payment issues. And once they post it, either me or the member of the group would contact that broker, ask about it, and a lot of times these issue gets resolved. And so I actually pride myself on that. I made a video about eight months ago and at that time it was around 10 grand that we help recovering, I stopped counting but I know it's been over 10 grand that we help drivers recover from either brokers not paying, maybe getting extra charges they weren't getting paid before now they are.

Speaker 4:
And so to me that's the biggest success story because we definitely don't charge for any of that. It's just a resource that members provide to other members and you know that I help in my part by doing that as well. So it's definitely fun. So people join I just say be professional and be open, go out there looking to learn something new, nobody in this industry knows everything. And I think once people realize that they're opening up to ask you more questions, and once they ask more questions, once they take off the hat of I know everything in this industry, they actually learn stuff. And especially from a younger guy, how these people, you know, my group are old enough to be my dad if not my grandfather. So it's an interesting mix managing a group that large with the ages, generational gaps above me.

Aaron Dunn:
Super interesting.

Michael Clements:
So Craig, one thing I was curious about is how much do you think social media has helped truck drivers and brokerages really start to have their voice more heard? I think back to the hours of service regulations and the things that the FMCSA was doing late last year. How much do you think that social media is driving the unified voice of the trucking industry to make regulation changes and other things?

Craig:
Great question. I'm glad you brought this up because I'm often asked about it or how I feel about it. It goes back to strength and numbers, before 10 years ago, five years ago, social media was not what it is right now. And I think it's been a push in the last two or three years only, especially last year or two that more companies are noticing that social media is actually a big platform but a lot of people behind it. Going back to the regulation changes, I'm not exactly sure if a decision makers with regulations such as a government use the social media and kind of use it for their decision making. However, I do feel drivers feel like they have a voice and their voice is being heard when they do express these concern on social media.

Craig:
And not only that is when you go on social media is not just drivers, is other professionals, logistics, media outlets, there's freight tech companies, shipper decision makers, Possibly people who work in DOT, FMCSA but they all come together and they all voice our opinions and you see it when these posts are going viral or these videos are going viral when it's about ELD or with AB5. And I do want to bring that up with the AB5, there was a lot of heat about the AB5 going around in social media as you guys know. And now just recently I believe in the last day or two days possibly California kind of threw that out off trucking. And so there was a lot of drivers jumping with joy, a lot of people for obvious reasons on social media.

Craig:
And so I wouldn't have known that if I didn't read that news article on social media just flipping through read it, there it was. I only follow trustworthy news publications, and so I knew at that time when I read it, it was accurate. And so that was pretty interesting. And I think it's the power of social media of getting the word because I bring that up, if I didn't read on social media, I would have waited till I watched it on YouTube, one of my news outlets, or maybe watched it on news or read it in the paper, if you will. But I found it on social media and so does thousands of other people confirmed by the re-shares of that.

Michael Clements:
The percentage of your group, how many millennials do you think are actually in your Facebook group?

Craig:
Well I actually know, and I looked it up because I knew you guys were going to ask this since it was a millennial podcast here. And so I'm going to give you both for men and women, I bring this up because I'm all about more women in trucking, she can truck too, all that just because the more women, the more people we have in the industry, the more it changes. So up until last year it has been mainly men, 75 excuse me, 76% men, the rest women. But you know, this year we actually we had a huge shift, it's about 26% women now, which that 2% difference doesn't seem like a lot, but it actually is because that 2% went on the millennial side of the age group, and inside the group between 18 and 34 years old. Let's just say I know that's a little bit out of the range of there. Its 25% men and 8% women and those are accurate numbers by the Facebook numbers.

Craig:
The majority of the age and the group is still between 25 and 44, however I am noticing a huge increase was millennials, which is exciting because that means new age thinking. A lot of that is with the broker side or the tech side or even media side, but you are starting to yell a whole bunch more of younger drivers, which this industry needs because as you see by the numbers, 48% of men to the top age group of 44, there's not very many years in terms of decades in their career left. Where a new guy at 25 he says a whole career ahead of them, which I think will benefit the industry there.

Michael Clements:
Do you think social media has helped in promoting the industry, its image, what it looks like, how it appears to younger generation. Do you think that's helping?

Craig:
Yes. And I would tell you when I met Aaron it was actually because I found that trucking for a millennial sticker, it was at GATS. And I'm like, "What is this? This is... I'm all about brands, logos. Like what is this? I like this." I actually found as booth, talked with Aaron, we couldn't match something up at that time. But I'm seeing a revibe as these new age thinkings, these younger people bringing in their ideas, it's all about the social media. I mean a lot of these carriers, they're going afterward hiring interns or at least younger people who are just inexperienced but maybe younger full of ideas. They're doing these awesome like videos of their companies for the hiring, using drones, and all this is for social media. I would say it's for the gram, that's exactly what they're doing and it works. I see it with driver recruiting, I see it with trying to get freight agents or at least the brand awareness and there is no better place to have brand awareness then on social media.

Aaron Dunn:
Yeah, I'd agree. Kind of touching back to your point on discovering news and breaking information on social. There's not a lot of big news public like you won't catch a lot of trucking news happening on bigger news outlets. It'd be pretty hard. Like you'd have to be in California probably to really know the details about AB5 and what that government's doing unless you're inside some kind of trucking publication. So it's really important that you know that stuff is broadcasted on social because otherwise nobody would know. Nobody would know to expect it or guarded or in the case of AB5 beg your government officials not to let it into your state.

Craig:
Yeah, that's exactly right. And kind of on your point there. I think it's because it's not shown on national media outlets or the news, what have you is because in all honesty, trucking is boring. The only thing you see on the news and maybe like a robot truck delivering beer, well that's exciting. So of course we're going to flash on the five o'clock news, but in this industry full of people, we want to know these new things. So it was, luckily there's a lot of media outlets out there and of course you know people as your podcast, podcasts like mine to provide these news and these little snippets of information for people like me, you and everybody else in the industry who craves it or wants it or who just wants to surround themselves with it. So I find that fascinating.

Michael Clements:
Do you think that social media is going to continue to grow for in the trucking industry? I guess in terms of... You think it's going to continue to promote it, trucking is only going to get deeper into social or do you think that where we're at right now is where it's going to stay?

Craig:
Yeah, I definitely believe that social media or trucking or logistics and social media would definitely get stronger. And I think it's the main fact is that people behind the profile, it's real people, the people in these groups. It's real people that you work with on day to day basis. Inside the work you can't say much, you can't really say exactly what you want to say, but you know, after hours on social media you guys are connecting on another level, learning from each other. Groups now on Facebook, you have to remember are still new. Facebook started their first ad campaign with groups less than a year ago. And so it's very fascinating, the increase in membership numbers. This last year since Facebook started pushing groups because groups are sense of community and now in groups has pages, and people want to be a part of a community especially when it has something to do with them. So from that they're just going to continue to grow.

Aaron Dunn:
Cool. Yeah, tend to agree.

Aaron Dunn:
Switching gears a little bit, let's talk about last year. We're still at the top of 2020 the very, very top of 2020 yeah.

Craig:
Still new.

Aaron Dunn:
So there's so many 2019 and looking back at what that year was in lots of commentary and summaries and all that kind of stuff still happening, but I think it's a good thing to do especially as we prepare for next year, we kind of want to look back and, and see where we're coming from. What's your take on 2019 as it relates to trucking and like I've got a stat here, 6,600 truck drivers lost their jobs. Blood bath was the big, word of the year and a lot of different news outlets and stuff like that. So what's your take for trucking in 2019 and what are some lessons do you think people should learn from the past 12 months?

Craig:
Great question. You can't really talk about 2019 unless you start with 2018 right? Because 2018 it was an insane year. I mean, everybody made money and if you weren't making tons of money in that year, you probably weren't waking up to go to work. I mean, money was just everywhere. And so because of that, carieers sort of buying new trucks, meaning they started hiring more drivers. Not only that, drivers started leaving companies, buying their own trucks, becoming owner operators, agents became brokerages, I mean the list goes on and on and on. They did that anticipation for of course, the next year. It's an outstanding business move, it's a great business move, planning ahead, putting your pieces, your ducks in the row for the next year. However, as everybody has seen, 2019 did not start off or end with a bang as everybody thought in 2018. Everybody thought 2018 kind of set the new industry standard if you will, for rates and pricing. But that was not the case.

Craig:
That was evident with low rates across the maps, drivers cannot afford the trucks, carriers were struggling paying the drivers to company drivers, keeping up with the insurance, keeping up with the truck payments. Same thing with brokers especially the ones that agent went to a brokerage, they seen when freight volume dropped everybody was hurting. And the reason for the freight volumedropping across the map, it can definitely be a host of different issues as tariffs, just with the way the market is moving, it could be anything. However, when the megas started dropping, I think that's when everybody started noticing, you had the Falcon, Celadon and so you just had everybody just dropping, and when the megas dropped, that's when people started noticing.

Craig:
I really think in 2020 it will balance out, I really believe that. And I'll tell you why. It's because 2018 was just a weird year, I mean it was just a weird year and I just think 2019 exactly how it was before 2018 just kind of leveled out. It is what it is, everybody's surviving. But 2020 I think we know what happened in 2019 from the result of 2018 and I think that this year everybody will level out. There's been a lot of changes, a lot of new apps, these digital brokerages, just making it easier for company drivers, owner [inaudible 00:24:09] carriers, even brokers and so I think it will get better in 2020. We don't see it yet, but I do believe it will come about.

Michael Clements:
2019 like you said, wasn't as fun as 2018 but I think it did filter out some of I guess the riff raft, if you would say, of the companies. I think that the companies that are in there for the long haul, no pun intended there, but the ones that are in it right now are going to be there for a while. I do hate that there are companies, I mean the one down in dabble just closed down last week, I forget their name, but Fleetwood Transportation who closed down over 240 trucks, sodded insurance cost. I think you may still see some of that this year and unfortunately I don't really consider those kinds of people riff raft. I just think there are consequences of really bad regulation and overblown insurance costs but I don't want to go down that path.

Michael Clements:
I'm hoping that 2020 is going to be a, like you're saying, a level off year, steady is good, steady's just fun. No one said about steady and one of our main industries is oil and gas. So steady is just fine with us. You can grow a fair amount with just steady. Do you feel that 2020 and going into 2021 do you feel like there's going to be a steady flow there in the freight industry?

Craig:
Yeah, great question. If 2019 didn't happen the way it did, I'll predict 2021, however, until we get the end of Q2, I probably don't want to say anything about 2021. But I'm very fascinated to see what's going on, of course I get all my information as data, talk on a lot of people in the industry, people like you high up at these brokerages or trucking companies. And that's how I get my data. So towards the middle of the year I start asking around and have a better prediction for 2021 there. But if we can only hope.

Aaron Dunn:
Craig, okay, so I'm going to ask you direct I want to know how can freight brokers and truck drivers make more money in 2020 because that's going to be the title of the podcast. So make more money in 2020, I guess we'll start with the brokers and go with the drivers. How do, how do they do it?

Craig:
For 2020 especially when I keep saying you have to optimize your operations, you have to become open and flexible to the changes. The people that are struggling right now is the older generations, I call in them people like my dad, because I always say my dad wouldn't use an app to book loads so I understand it. But you have to use an app, you have to use these technology within the industry that's offered to make money. You cannot make money as you used to with old business. My 2020, make more money is optimizing your operation, using tech to streamline the repetitive day to day tasks that you do every single day. Once you realize that time saved, you'll realize that time equals money and you actually make more money by saving money within your operations. You cannot do that unless you sit down, look at your numbers, look at what you're doing and as I say, optimize your operations.

Craig:
And so that's my biggest money making tip. Back in 2019, it was basically go after as much freight as you can go after, look at your weekly numbers and not the rate per mile during the day because it was hard. But now it's 2020 I'm saying look at what made you the most money, if you have to diversify, you definitely need to do that. The only run dry in looking to [inaudible 00:28:01] and want to look into something else, maybe flatbed because once you diversify your operations, you will see you have a lot more success. And when one side's lower, the other side's good to go, everything always evens out. And so if you're thinking you can make money in 2020 by repeating 2018 or 2019 you better hang up your hat now because they're not going to work, as you have to rethink how you're going to work in 2020 and so I think that kind of leads in both the brokers.

Craig:
I know you're talking about one of the other brokers and drivers. But for my truck driver friends, I would say, I know the end goal is shippers, but don't forget there's a lot of great brokers out there with direct access to the freight from the shippers. And so sometimes instead of going around a broker and hopes to get it from the shipper, your best bet a lot of times is from that broker. And one thing I mentioned, a lot of shippers don't pay the extra charges, and that's when I work with these carriers they tell me they have all the direct breakthrough through this shipper, they're this small outfit or that locally, but they don't pay extra charges. And when they see after waiting for hours that they're actually losing 12 hours a week let's say, they realize they're losing a lot of money, when they can take that same load through a brokerage and almost get guaranteed extra pay.

Craig:
So little things like that. When you change your mind, you become more open, start thinking and looking at your operations differently, you start seeing that you become successful in different ways. That's my biggest make more money, usually I do that on a Monday, Make More Money Monday, but we can do it today.

Aaron Dunn:
The good news is that our podcast will debut on Monday, so-

Craig:
Awesome. There we go Make More Money Monday. There we go.

Michael Clements:
Craig, How much do even smaller brokerages right now need to be investing into automation for their businesses?

Craig:
Yeah, you definitely have to. And what I say is I talked with a lot of agents who telling me like, "Craig I'm doing let's say a million, a million a year in business is great, I want to leave, I want to do my own brokerage." Well that's everybody's thought. But the thing is that can end at any time. And so I always tell brokers, you can't just have the Excel spreadsheet, the one little thing, the one row board and call yourself a broker. It's more than that. It's your experienced staff, it's having all the operation in place, the experience to handle issues. Because one off issues happen every day, and if you don't have the experience, we'll never figure it out, and that is doing more harm on the customer than what it is doing good for anybody.

Craig:
Brokerages go out of business all the time, and so that's the issue. They build this trust with carriers and they go out of business and that's what hurts the truck drivers. I would say the agency is not fully prepared, don't do that. Don't hop into the industry as a broker because it's different than what it was a few years ago. You have to put in money, all these recurring payments every month because technology costs, however technology keeps you, it makes you stand out. That's what keeps you competitive in this industry. And right now in 2020 especially, you have to remain competitive. The market is constantly changing and so it's just everybody has to keep learning, keep introducing these technologies in their operations because all the megas they already done it. And I say mega is a large brokerages, they have already done it and that's how they're successful.

Aaron Dunn:
If there was like one or two pieces of technology that you think are like absolutely necessary no negotiation, maybe even a third that you're like throw that one in too, what would you recommend for a brokerage?

Craig:
For a brokerage load matching software, right now what I see heaviest, especially started brokerages, are heavy on dispatch. I'm all for it, the humans working of course, but there's times when you know, technology can handle these repetitive tasks, and so definitely load matching software. Of course compliance tools as simple as carrier port one one. I'm a huge believer in carrier port one one because I'm a big believer in transparency and that carrier port one one provides that transparency. Just going back to load matching, digital load boards, if you will, though some companies have a thing called smart capacity or any tools like that. I know Truckstop has something brewing up in the back end. So any technology like that, that help streamline the day to day tasks. Because when I started in the industry, when I was two or three years in, your job was to just call a hundred drivers a day to book loads. You don't really need to do that anymore. And that's the thing is once brokers realize that, you could save a whole bunch of money and optimize your time somewhere else or spend your time somewhere else.

Michael Clements:
How much longer do you think email is going to be the form of communication for brokers to trucking companies?

Craig:
Well, I'm not sure where email started becoming the norm because I'm a texter. I'd rather text and that's why I like how companies are becoming more open to.. We're all in business to business, so business to business texting I think will be the next thing. But not only that, with all these apps providing in app rate confirmations, perfect deliveries, even invoicing, you almost don't need email and so it's almost causing more of a headache because there's another line of communication that you have to organize when right now everything's going through a software load board or TMS or an app. And so yeah, I think for the next few years obviously you probably have email, but I think there will be a shift at some point. Just like all things.

Michael Clements:
Last question here for me is just talking about smaller brokerages, larger brokerages, do you think we're ever going to start seeing some consolidation in the industry? The larger guys buying a lot of the smaller guys? Or do you think that's come and gone, that ship sailed? What do you think is going to happen there?

Craig:
Well I do think there's still a huge market for the bigger guys buying out the smaller guys, and not only that is people who want to come in the industry, their best bet is buying a smaller outfit, whether that's a brokerage or a trucking company, and to get their foot in the door capture those accounts, maybe improve the operation to turn around the company, which could help the current employees there. But I still see every day people buying up the smaller ones, especially if they have tech involved, whether it's a TMS system they built in house or the carrier has some kind of software that they built in house, of course, they're very valuable to be bought out by a bigger company. And so I do believe that will still happen.

Aaron Dunn:
Sweet man. That's about all we've got for you today.

Craig:
Awesome.

Aaron Dunn:
So really appreciate you spending some time with us. It's going to be a really excellent episode, I think the way to start the year.

Craig:
Awesome.

Michael Clements:
Craig, thanks for coming up.

Craig:
See you guys later.

Aaron Dunn:
Have a good one.

Craig:
You as well. Bye.